Not Another "Israeli Carry" thread!

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 12/28/2011 5:11pm

Forgive the ignorance, but in the scenario shown in the video (the first run through) she makes no attempt, at least on camera, to control the weapon arm of her assailant. Given the size difference I could understand the argument of her not being able to, but she doesn't even try.

Also, in this scenario (excuse the armchair generalship) would it not be more advisable to move laterally, away from the knife, as opposed to going straight back?

From what I've read it seems to break down into two camps:
1) You are in an immediate life threatening scenario, having a round in the chamber is advantageous.
2) You are in a self defense scenario where you have the time to chamber a round.

Does anyone have statistics for which scenario is more likely? While I'm not saying one shouldn't prepare for the worst does the risk of an accidental/negligent discharge outweigh the benefit given the small chance of a violent encounter?

Sorry for the rambling, just trying to understand.

**ignatzami** · Posted On: 12/28/2011 5:12pm

Duplicate post, sorry

**tgace** · Posted On: 12/28/2011 6:50pm

The risk of a negligent discharge is vastly overplayed here in IMO. Unless you are giving advice to someone who purchased a firearm for carry but has no (and intends to get no) training in how to carry or use it.

If you seriously think that there is a greater risk of an AD than there is of needing the weapon than just don't carry one.

I've worked with/associated with hundreds of people who carry guns (loaded) for many years...more have had to use them in "real life" than ever had an AD because they were carrying chambered.

**chemsoldier** · Posted On: 12/28/2011 7:44pm

Originally Posted by tgace

... more have had to use them in "real life" than ever had an AD because they were carrying chambered.

Indeed

**Devil** · Posted On: 12/28/2011 7:57pm

To OP - quality holster, with one in the chamber. There's really no other acceptable way for self defense.

**TexJohn** · Posted On: 12/29/2011 12:05am

Originally Posted by mierdadetoro

If you are going to carry with no round in the chamber, you better train that way. If you aren't, you better train that way. I dont like having a round in the chamber, myself. You, with practice, can draw, pull the slide, and fire accurately almost as fast as you could in DA mode.

If I were to pick a person to have to gun fight all old school and ****, you sir would be that guy. In short, an unloaded weapon (even without one in the pipe) is an expensive club...and a poor one at that.

**money** · Posted On: 12/29/2011 10:31am

Originally Posted by tgace

Israeli Carry is the favorite of those who think that they will be in a situation where they will not be the person immediately attacked, or that they will somehow have the time/distance to draw, charge and fire before the BG is all over their ****.

It's not a matter of time, its a matter of ability to get the weapon into operation while you are being attacked.

While I'm a firm believer in carrying with your weapon ready to fire, I don't think that video supports the argument very well. At 5ft she got stabbed whether she had a round in the chamber or not.

I think your second video illustrated the point a lot better though. :)

**tgace** · Posted On: 12/29/2011 11:30am

Originally Posted by christmas cash

While I'm a firm believer in carrying with your weapon ready to fire, I don't think that video supports the argument very well. At 5ft she got stabbed whether she had a round in the chamber or not.

I think your second video illustrated the point a lot better though. :)

But she was able to return fire...in real life she may have well survived the encounter. If getting injured in a SD scenario = loosing, you will seldom ever "win".

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

**submessenger** · Posted On: 12/29/2011 11:58am

Originally Posted by Nutcracker, sweet

Some days I do, some days I don't. Two factors, for me: 1) which gun - I have no problem ever keeping a round in the USP because it's got a safety. I'm a little more cautious with the Kel-Tec. 2) where I am: in office or home, I'm intimately familiar with the layout, and know that I have at least a few seconds warning with which to prepare - in these situations, I'm comfortable not keeping a round in, because I know my surroundings and my guns.

Now that I'm more familiar with my Kel-Tec (my regular carry piece), I've started keeping one in the pipe all the time.

**money** · Posted On: 12/29/2011 12:02pm

Originally Posted by tgace

But she was able to return fire...in real life she may have well survived the encounter. If getting injured in a SD scenario = loosing, you will seldom ever "win".

I just don't agree with the video's notion of success. Being able to return fire while taking a knife to the lower back & armpit (kidney? lung? heart?) does not constitute a viable trade-off to me.

Am I off-base to think that at such a close range the #1 priority should be controlling their knife first, then bringing your own weapon into play once you have the opportunity?

If I wanted to show the value of having a round chambered, I think it would be more helpful to show it in a situation where drawing, moving and firing would be the appropriate first response (longer range) or how it would help after the immediate threat of the weapon has been dealt with as in your second video.