Thread: Uchikomi questions.
11/04/2011 6:37pm, #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
If we do uchikomi for Ogoshi in the static drill, we move power foot forward first. If we do dynamic (right hand moving) uchikomi we bring left foot back and spin around.
Doing solo uchikomi I'm taught to do forward throws the same as static,,, move power foot, then the rest.
Would it be better for me to walk backwards and bring left foot back, or would it be better to practice at a static?
11/04/2011 7:18pm, #2
Not just for O goshi, but for any static throw.
This is a common problem and it is a major stumbling block for adult beginners when learning Judo.
Re Terminology here is a quite checklist so people can follow the following.
Now to address your question. I think its really unhelpful to introduce throws using static uchikomi to adult beginners, because its almost impossible for an adult beginner to pull forwards to perform the kuzushi action whilst turning backwards and not either lose the kuzushi action or bugger up the pivot.
I get my adult beginners moving and doing the forwards pivot asap. I only use static uchikomi for more advanced beginners and for kuzushi drilling.
O goshi in particular is very problematic when done static because you off balance/ tsurikomi then take your hand off the lapel and place it around the back as you reverse in. In the process uke comes back off their toes to being flat footed and you lose all your kuzushi.
If I were an adult beginner I would try and do as little static throw uchikomi as possible I would do as much of it moving as I can.
I would only really drill my kuzushi statically.
I would also read these two articles to understand how to do those two things.
11/05/2011 10:13am, #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
That answered my question. Thanks!
11/11/2011 1:25pm, #4
I'll second that motion. I don't use any static uchikomi when teaching any sort of beginner.
For any forward throw that tori leaves both feet on the ground, just have uke walk towards tori, ayumi ashi at first, and do the turn. You can practice the turn by yourself, then add uke.
O Goshi is as pointed out a bit problematic, however, with uke walking towards tori, momentum is preserved and thus kuzushi can be continued by good use of turning and hikite.
Also, just throw each other, screw the uchikomi, if your ukemi is decent that is.Falling for Judo since 1980
11/11/2011 3:40pm, #5
I have been teaching beginners now for about a year and can tell you that static uchikomi is worth the effort.
The problem I find is that people do not translate the actions to a dynamic throw as well as they should and do not realize the basics of a proper throw.
In static uchikomi we have uke stand square. This is to simulate the position that you will want them in before trying to execute a forward throw such as Ogoshi in randori. Now the way you get uke to that position is an entirely different lesson and for another discussion but remember that this is the beginning not the end.
My main concern and the reason for teaching Ogoshi is so that tori will not have to worry about the action of the power hand and the details that are involved with other throws such as seois and tsurikomigoshi.
I have them put emphasis on the initial step with the front foot going across the body and staying in front. While having them pulling the sleeve high and hard to get kuzushi.
During the turn I make sure that they get the hand around the body and SQUAT and maintaining a straight back, pulling uke onto their backs and having uke fill the space. From here its a simple twist of the body focusing on putting your right ear on your left knee.
During moving uchikomi when tori is moving backwards this is a different footwork pattern but the initial static drill better simulates the way you will do it in a combination with say kouchi. So instead of waiting for uke to push I rather get my guys into the idea of attacking than waiting.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
11/17/2011 11:22pm, #6
In the end, it's 6 of one/half dozen of another as long as a logical progression is used with as many intermediate steps as needed to learn the skill.
The next issue is how to throw someone who is standing in migi or hidari shizentai, which is the more realistic situation. But someone who can throw "square" can learn that pretty easily.
I also debated over just dumping learning to throw with uke square and start with offset stances, but I found that was usually overload, and that a solid ability to throw with uke square made learning offset throwing a lot easier. After all, it's the thowing action that is where we want to end up, all the rest is just maneuvering.
We had a clinician from Vancouver who demonstrated a method of using the lines between tatami as guides for teaching how to throw offset from the beginning. Nice method and it works. Basically, uke lines up his lead foot on a line, and tori lines up his trailing foot on the same line. Move in tsugi ashi, uke does the front pivot/tai sabaki so his lead foot is in front of tori lead foot on the line, then a back pivot to the T-ed up position.Falling for Judo since 1980
11/18/2011 6:27am, #7
Static uchikomi can also be tandoku renshuu.
If you build up pivoting skills and positioning skills via tandoku renshuu then things fit much better.
I agree that having the tsurite hand involved can cause problems, however, I dislike using O goshi to get around it, because it tends to pull people out of alignment and gives them spacing issues because they have to have contact around the back. If you have two bigger beginners working together its really hard for them to do O goshi.
A thing I was recently reminded of and nicked is doing a moving drill with a forward pivot and having tori start with his hand laid on the shoulder and then turn in to end up wrapping the head.
Eliminates the issues with the tsurite and those with gripping around the back.
11/18/2011 7:37am, #8
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Last night there was a beninner in aikido who wasn't getting the footwork for a simple 90 degree turn. I put him on T junction on the mats and had him use that.
The lines are good for direction, and bar freakish proportions, pretty helpful for distance too.
FMA places will sometimes have some type of star shape taped onto the ground to help train the angles.
As a remedial step for some people who can't tell if they've turned 180, 90 or 270 degrees I'll use cues like "turn until your facing the door," I've other things that identify the other sides of the mat like a curtain and a crash mat. I avoid using right and left because it leads to confusion.
11/20/2011 2:28pm, #9
I know we are the same line of thought Ben when it comes to training methods. Utilizing every trick in the book to get people to understand something you feel is really what I'm driving at.
I like the seat belt analogy. Yes right ear to left knee is what I was referring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk please ignore typos.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
11/20/2011 10:45pm, #10