1. #1
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    New to Martial Arts, Thinking BJJ

    Hello,

    I'm new to martial arts, as the nerd that I am I've started my martial arts search by reading up on this topic on books and on-line, now I've stumbled across this site. I've started seeing the Gracie Combatives videos as well as some of the older videos by Cesar Gracie, and Renzo Gracie. I think the techniques they show are probably the ones I'm best suited for. I know this isn't going to make me a martial arts expert but I think if I can at least become familiar with the names of the moves and their use it might make things easier if I end up joining a school.
    I'm 32yrs. old, 5'9" and 165 lbs.

    As I'm looking into learning Martial Arts mostly for self defense. There's still some doubts I have about the effectiveness of BJJ in a street type situation in the following areas:

    Groin protection
    Eye gouging
    Very large opponents
    Really Fast punches
    The effectiveness of grabbing someone's wrist in a real fight to perform a technique

    I've also picked up the book jiu jitsu University by Saulo Ribeiro but at this early stage I'm still skeptical the effectiveness against punches in a lot of the techniques.

  2. #2
    jspeedy's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to Bullshido! If you're at least considering BJJ that means you've got some sense. If self defense is your goal BJJ is perfect. Others here will also advise Judo, but remember BJJ is what's popular right now and you want to be popular right? LOl! Just kidding, I have a running joke here and I always give cheesy reasons why BJJ is better than Judo, either is fine.

    I train at a GJJ school and I enjoy the self defense aspect that is incorporated into the curriculum. I'm not sure how much time other schools spend on strictly self defense. Regardless of the school BJJ is an art of gaining dominant position, whether it's for sport or self defense if you know how to get to the dominant position you will be able to defend.

    I see you have doubts about groundfighting. It's not your fault, inferior arts everywhere who feel threatened by BJJ and groundfighting have made up reasons why they think it is ineffective even though they have no experience with it. First, all of the major arguments, eye gouging, groin protection, multiple opponents, broken glass on the ground ect. are issues regardless of the style you train. Guess what? You are vulnerable to eye gouges and groin grabs while standing perhaps more so than in ground fighting. Multiple opponents, are another example, you're fucked if your standing up or on the ground. Very large opponents? A moderately skilled BJJ practitioner can easily pick apart a larger inexperienced grappler by obtaining the dominant position. Really fast punches? Run!... to hell with that. Or use your take down skills to get into range hopefully not eating any punches, once this hypothetical fast puncher is on the ground obtain the dominant postition and relax. GJJ also has some punch defense stuff but if you wanna defend punches against a pro boxer or something take up boxing. Wrist grabs? Really? Perhaps you have BJJ confused with Aikido or Hapkido.

    Here's a video about defending groin grabs:

  3. #3

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100 View Post
    if I end up joining a school.
    If you have any legitimate interest in learning you're going to need to change that "if" into a "when". You can learn a lot from books and videos, but you need to practice it with a live, resisting opponent to have any carry-over whatsoever. Ideally that person will be trained and have some form of legitimate credentials, but beggers can't be choosers :)

    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100
    As I'm looking into learning Martial Arts mostly for self defense. There's still some doubts I have about the effectiveness of BJJ in a street type situation in the following areas:
    Umm.. I'll let someone else handle these more in-details, but it seems the rules of thumb on this board are:

    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100
    Groin protection
    Eye gouging
    Its more likely so get a successful, disrupting hit through to the standard more vulnerable areas in the face and body then to get one through to the groin (that will be felt with adrenaline) of a trained opponent. Ditto on gouging a person's eye (probably more so, there's a reason you don't hear of many street fights ending with a person's eye out).

    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100
    Very large opponents
    BJJ is considered to be one of the best sports for size discrepancies.

    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100
    Really Fast punches
    Who cares if they're fast if they're weak or inaccurate? I don't see what any other art would do for you here, beyond a striking-centered one that would leave you vulnerable to ground takedowns. As skill increases, so will ability to block.

    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100
    The effectiveness of grabbing someone's wrist in a real fight to perform a technique
    This is BJJ, not aikido or ninjutsu.

  4. #4
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the feedback, it's good to hear your reassurance on my areas of concern.
    On the "if I end up joining a school" I understand the need to actually join a school, it's just the way I form my sentences always leaving room for what-ifs.

    The Gracie Street Self Defence (With Rorion and Royce) videos have a lot of wrist grabs; I specifically remember the use against knifes, and battons.

    There's several traditional Jiu-Jitsu (I understand that's different from BJJ) ebooks from the 1800's that you can read for free in google books that have wrist grab techniques as well.
    Here's one such book:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=a-B...page&q&f=false

  5. #5

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to Bullshido, :)

    Nothing beats actual instruction, (and those dvds can get really expensive!)
    We can help you pick a school around your area too. You could find a gym that also offers boxing/kickboxing/muay thai classes and you could crosstrain and become a well rounded figther.

  6. #6

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by piojolio100 View Post
    Hello,

    I'm new to martial arts, as the nerd that I am I've started my martial arts search by reading up on this topic on books and on-line, now I've stumbled across this site. I've started seeing the Gracie Combatives videos as well as some of the older videos by Cesar Gracie, and Renzo Gracie. I think the techniques they show are probably the ones I'm best suited for. I know this isn't going to make me a martial arts expert but I think if I can at least become familiar with the names of the moves and their use it might make things easier if I end up joining a school.
    I'm 32yrs. old, 5'9" and 165 lbs.

    As I'm looking into learning Martial Arts mostly for self defense. There's still some doubts I have about the effectiveness of BJJ in a street type situation in the following areas:

    Groin protection
    Eye gouging
    Very large opponents
    Really Fast punches
    The effectiveness of grabbing someone's wrist in a real fight to perform a technique

    I've also picked up the book jiu jitsu University by Saulo Ribeiro but at this early stage I'm still skeptical the effectiveness against punches in a lot of the techniques.
    If you are planning to lurk here for an extended period of time, I recommend reading MrBadGuy's Forever Fat series (just type "forever fat" into the search function and it should come up). Not only is it ridiculously entertaining but it also provides an insight to how arts that teach groin shots, eye shots and other "dirty" techniques fare against MBG's skills in BJJ where he is a purple belt (for example, I remember reading about him armbarring a kung fu guy who tried to attack him using "illegal" moves).

    As for very large/multiple opponents, survival-fu on the streets is always
    (1) Hand-wallet-over-fu
    (2) Pepper-spray-fu/Gun-fu
    (3) Sprint-fu

    An additional note: BJJs love to crosstrain so even if you find you are having trouble defending against strikes after one or two years of training, picking up muay thai will solve that problem.

  7. #7

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Iíve a lot of thoughts on this, but Iíve set them out at great length in blog posts here and here, so I wonít repeat them in this post. A few more thoughts:


    • Adding to what PerseusStoned said about BJJ being considered to be one of the best sports for size discrepancies, consider this: BJJ tournaments often have open weight divisions. Boxing doesnít. Tournament organisation suggests that certain combat sports but not others make it possible to have safe and relevant open weight divisions.
    • Dealing with punches can be easy against someone thoroughly unfamiliar with grappling. A quick feint to the head followed by a double-leg takedown can blindside people who arenít used to them. If you really want to learn to deal with striking then train striking (as well).
    • BJJ doesnít fiddle much with wrists. Weapon disarms are a special case. I suppose it makes sense to control the weapon hand, but letís face it: Unarmed vs. armed is a good way to lose a fight and sustain injuries.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: ďdonít go to the groundĒ? ]
    ďThe plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A fight is an "anything can happen" situation. Don't get too caught up in the specifics of "what if's".

    That said, as your training progresses, so will your reflexes. That doesn't mean you wont eat some punches.
    Another thing, No martial art is complete they all lack something somewhere. Go train and have fun. Any training is better than none I guess.

    As far as multiple opponents. If you're stupid enough to stand there and not run like hell, you deserve what you get.

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