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  1. #1

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    I think most would like to know

    Just wanted to ask opinions on this:

    When visiting some Kung-Fu schools to enquire about classes. Why are you only allowed to watch the lowest grade (people who've just joined) training? I cant see anything about their style when watching one of these classes, mainly just stretching and a few punches and kicks.

    Watching the lowest class doesnt make me say WOW! Ive seen more WOW in aerobic classes you can see going on at local gyms.

    Are these schools trying to hide something? or is this the norm?

    Ive been into a few MMA gyms and everyone seems to be training as a whole, and you can watch as long as you like, the head guys dont really stand out amongst the crowd and you sort of know who he/she/they are because they approach you.

    You see more intense training at the MMA gyms, although Im not interested in MMA.

    But the kung fu schools seem to put higher students and their 'Master' on some sort of pedestal. And when talking to the 'master' or ShiFu, they make you feel like its a great privilege to be taught by them (Someone I have no clue about, never heard their name) opposed to the MMA gym's (Famous - all over South African media) best fighters in SA, who talk to you and encourage you to start and say they will help you get your game on and make you feel more 'equal' to them on a human level without flashing their title's.

    Some of the kung fu schools ive been into to, the students walk around with this weird kind of fear/anxiety, shouting greetings at everyone every 2 minutes. Its hard to have a conversation with anyone without shitting your pants at every shout.

    I asked why everyone is shouting, and was told that the students need to greet every time they enter or exit a room or something like that. For what reason is this done?

    Sounds like someone went full retard to me, when they thought this through as a rule.

    I really wanted to find a good school to learn Kung Fu from here (Area restricted) and looks like my attempts to find something good in my area is a waste of time. and I will find more traditional kung fu or Gong Fu in the toasted sandwich I just made.

  2. #2
    <plasma>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henni View Post
    Just wanted to ask opinions on this:

    When visiting some Kung-Fu schools to enquire about classes. Why are you only allowed to watch the lowest grade (people who've just joined) training? I cant see anything about their style when watching one of these classes, mainly just stretching and a few punches and kicks.

    Watching the lowest class doesnt make me say WOW! Ive seen more WOW in aerobic classes you can see going on at local gyms.

    Are these schools trying to hide something? or is this the norm?

    Ive been into a few MMA gyms and everyone seems to be training as a whole, and you can watch as long as you like, the head guys dont really stand out amongst the crowd and you sort of know who he/she/they are because they approach you.

    You see more intense training at the MMA gyms, although Im not interested in MMA.

    But the kung fu schools seem to put higher students and their 'Master' on some sort of pedestal. And when talking to the 'master' or ShiFu, they make you feel like its a great privilege to be taught by them (Someone I have no clue about, never heard their name) opposed to the MMA gym's (Famous - all over South African media) best fighters in SA, who talk to you and encourage you to start and say they will help you get your game on and make you feel more 'equal' to them on a human level without flashing their title's.

    Some of the kung fu schools ive been into to, the students walk around with this weird kind of fear/anxiety, shouting greetings at everyone every 2 minutes. Its hard to have a conversation with anyone without shitting your pants at every shout.

    I asked why everyone is shouting, and was told that the students need to greet every time they enter or exit a room or something like that. For what reason is this done?

    Sounds like someone went full retard to me, when they thought this through as a rule.

    I really wanted to find a good school to learn Kung Fu from here (Area restricted) and looks like my attempts to find something good in my area is a waste of time. and I will find more traditional kung fu or Gong Fu in the toasted sandwich I just made.

    The answer you will get:

    Because that is the class you will be joining and they don't want to give you a false sense that you will be learning with the advanced students right away

    The real answer:

    Their advanced students aren't any more impressive than their beginners.

    Forget Kung Fu and start at the MMA academy. You'll thank yourself after a year instead of regretting that year to spent in Kung Fu. You aren't going to be a Kung Fu monk from the movie and no one fights like that outside of Peking Opera/Hollywood. You want to learn to strike and why not learn from the best in your area.
    Last edited by <plasma>; 6/12/2015 4:18am at .

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    Forget Kung Fu and start at the MMA academy. You'll thank yourself after a year instead of regretting that year to spent in Kung Fu. You aren't going to be a Kung Fu monk from the movie and no one fights like that outside of Peking Opera/Hollywood. You want to learn to strike and why not learn from the best in your area.
    Its such a shame, because I enjoy the Art form of Kung Fu/Gong Fu, but the schools here are all about measuring dicks, doing so by flashing their well bought "accreditations".

    And its a shame because the students who are paying their hard earned money to train at these schools are blinded by the bullshit fed to them, and are not just wasting their money but their time too. And no one dare question anything, because you are the student. But they forget that they are the employer employing the school and have ever right to question everything.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    The answer you will get:

    Because that is the class you will be joining and they don't want to give you a false sense that you will be learning with the advanced students right away

    The real answer:

    Their advanced students aren't any more impressive than their beginners.

    Forget Kung Fu and start at the MMA academy. You'll thank yourself after a year instead of regretting that year to spent in Kung Fu. You aren't going to be a Kung Fu monk from the movie and no one fights like that outside of Peking Opera/Hollywood. You want to learn to strike and why not learn from the best in your area.
    I'll be honest, that is extremely shortsighted, uninformed, and unnecessary. It sounds like you've had an experience to lead you to this conclusion, which is unfortunate, but don't trash Chinese martial arts just because you came across a crappy school with overconfident students wearing silk tunics.

    To give you an actual answer, Henni, it depends on what school you go to and what you asked for. I for one have never been denied a chance to see the advanced class at a kung fu school, I just asked and they said "Sure, stick around after this class and you can watch."

    If they are trying to sell you on their style it is going to come off as sketchy no matter what art they are teaching, so if you see them actively trying to impress you with how awesome they look right off the bat it's probably not a great place to train.

    MMA gyms train together quite a bit as one class because that's just how they are traditionally ran. I've been to 2 MMA gyms in this area that have a beginners class and an advanced class just like every TMA, but that may be the exception rather than the rule.

    At the end of the day, quality of instruction and impression of your experience will vary from school to school and that is going to be across the board with every martial art. There are a million McDojo's out there for sure, but when you find the genuine ones that aren't money/belt factories stick to it and you'll get more than you ever imagined out of it.
    Last edited by ShodanEndeavor; 6/12/2015 8:31am at .

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShodanEndeavor View Post
    but when you find the genuine ones that aren't money/belt factories stick to it and you'll get more than you ever imagined out of it.
    Thats the tricky part... is finding one. Without having to travel too far. I feel sorry for the students training at these 'McDojos'. Because they are the ones paying the ultimate price, and the masters dont give a ****. To the point where they actually believe their bullshit because they have these bought accreditations to prove to themselves and their students that they are legit.

    I too can become greatly accredited by not even owning a school or institute, just have to fill out the form and pay the fee. And Viola!

    I can get my 12 year old brother listed as a grand master of Hung Ga with the right amount of Benjamins.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henni View Post
    Thats the tricky part... is finding one. Without having to travel too far. I feel sorry for the students training at these 'McDojos'. Because they are the ones paying the ultimate price, and the masters dont give a ****. To the point where they actually believe their bullshit because they have these bought accreditations to prove to themselves and their students that they are legit.

    I too can become greatly accredited by not even owning a school or institute, just have to fill out the form and pay the fee. And Viola!

    I can get my 12 year old brother listed as a grand master of Hung Ga with the right amount of Benjamins.
    It is the tricky part, but fortunately for you there is an entire community willing to sort through the BS with you to find a school you'll enjoy. I'm not against MMA by any means, but if you want to learn a traditional Chinese art you're not going to find it there. If you want to learn Hung Gar, for instance, then I'll even help you with the Google search of your area to find something at least in the same realm with some credentials that are recognized by the Hung Gar community.

    See, you could technically find someone to throw money at and get a plaque saying you are a kung fu master, but anyone in the kung fu community would be able to spot the fake (especially at competitions and seminars) and 5 minutes of Googling will find you a page that questions the credibility of the instruction. Another 5 minutes of Google will find you the lineage of that instructor (if you can't find that, STAY AWAY) and you can find out if they are indeed a student of someone respected in the community.

    It's a process, for sure, and McDojo's will always thrive because there is no real way to regulate the industry (nor would I want someone to) and mom's just want a place to drop their kids off to learn discipline because they aren't teaching it to them at home and want to blame anyone but themselves.

    When I see people asking about a traditional martial art on here and get a response like Plasma's (who, btw, is a great person as far as I know) it reminds me of car forums where someone asks advice on their Mustang and someone replies "lol no Ford sucks buy a Chevy."

  7. #7
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShodanEndeavor View Post
    See, you could technically find someone to throw money at and get a plaque saying you are a kung fu master, but anyone in the kung fu community would be able to spot the fake (especially at competitions and seminars) and 5 minutes of Googling will find you a page that questions the credibility of the instruction. Another 5 minutes of Google will find you the lineage of that instructor (if you can't find that, STAY AWAY) and you can find out if they are indeed a student of someone respected in the community.

    When I see people asking about a traditional martial art on here and get a response like Plasma's (who, btw, is a great person as far as I know) it reminds me of car forums where someone asks advice on their Mustang and someone replies "lol no Ford sucks buy a Chevy."
    sort of. only you have about as much chance of finding a quality kung fu school as you do finding a british motorcycle that runs well in the rain.

    good CMA exists, but chances are that OP would be better off training MMA. sorry to say that your advice is going to be bad 99.999% of the time when it comes to CMA, and if OP doesn't have the background needed to evaluate the school in question.

    to say that "anyone in the kung fu community would be able to spot the fake" is absurd. the kung fu community is full of fakes and that is why it is so tricky finding anyone with actual skill in CMA. i wouldn't trust the "kung fu community" to find me a decent soup dumpling, let alone a sifu.

    lineage as a test of a school? don't make me laugh. plenty of **** schools have great *lineage*, it doesn't mean ****.

    now if you want to talk about a full contact fight record, then that might be an indication of a good school, but how would OP know which tournaments are real and which are bullshit? lots of shitty places have impressive sounding tournament results, but unless those results are from a full contact tournament with decent competitors, they mean nothing.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    sort of. only you have about as much chance of finding a quality kung fu school as you do finding a british motorcycle that runs well in the rain.

    good CMA exists, but chances are that OP would be better off training MMA. sorry to say that your advice is going to be bad 99.999% of the time when it comes to CMA, and if OP doesn't have the background needed to evaluate the school in question.

    to say that "anyone in the kung fu community would be able to spot the fake" is absurd. the kung fu community is full of fakes and that is why it is so tricky finding anyone with actual skill in CMA. i wouldn't trust the "kung fu community" to find me a decent soup dumpling, let alone a sifu.

    lineage as a test of a school? don't make me laugh. plenty of **** schools have great *lineage*, it doesn't mean ****.

    now if you want to talk about a full contact fight record, then that might be an indication of a good school, but how would OP know which tournaments are real and which are bullshit? lots of shitty places have impressive sounding tournament results, but unless those results are from a full contact tournament with decent competitors, they mean nothing.
    You do realize that not everyone wants to come in and become the next greatest thing in the UFC? Or that not everyone is looking for a place where they can compete in full-contact fighting tournaments to prove their strength? Some people just want to learn martial arts for the sake of learning martial arts. You'll be able to defend yourself better, you'll be in better shape, and you'll make tons of friends. Your attitude towards the CMA community is why it is in the shape it is in. If you want trustworthy schools, trustworthy people have to run them. If you don't think anyone is up to your standard of trustworthiness then open your own school and stop complaining about how much everyone else sucks. It does nothing except poison the culture of traditional martial arts.

    This guy is searching for a kung fu school. He didn't say anything about wanting to turn into a "get in my guard bro" junkie and compete, he said he wants to learn some kung fu. Back to my car analogy "Hey guys my Focus won't start, do you know of any way to fix this?" You: "lol no sell that junk and buy a Chevy truck, it's real and practical."

  9. #9
    Locu5's Avatar
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    ... did someone say dumpling?
    Locu5
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locu5 View Post
    ... did someone say dumpling?

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