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  1. mrh80 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2011 4:53pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For what I have seen there are two main ways of doing the choke after getting the first grip, either stay square and drive the elbow into their chest or slide the knee under there arm so you are at an angle to negate the bridge. I prefer the first (Roger) method, which makes it a slow, grinding into submission choke.

    For the second method, Damian Maia has a very good description on his mount tape, Science of JiuJitsu Vol 2.

    For the first method here is a clip by Nic Gregoriades (Roger black belt) that really helped me:



    Another way:

    Last edited by mrh80; 10/25/2011 4:56pm at .
  2. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2011 7:46pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the wrists are much more important than most people realise with these chokes.
  3. Sorekara is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2011 9:01pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=judoka_uk;2622161]Cheers, I find that the hand I insert first gets bent at the wrist and I can't seem to effectively maintain the grip and apply the choke if I try and keep it straight which is what I was told to do by the purple belt.


    QUOTE]

    I've had similar problems with several techniques. I wonder if I'm understanding correctly.

    The hand you insert is staying with the top side of your wrist on uke's neck. As you apply pressure you're trying to hold your wrist straight like wrist curls.
  4. rangerdavy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2011 11:26pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two tidbits that I have not seen explicitly mentioned thus far:

    1 - When doing the choke from mount, after sinking your second hand in, try to put your forehead forward and up as far as you can (so you start falling forward). This allows you to raise their chin with your whole body weight, leading to a faster and cleaner choke.

    2 - Whiteshark mentioned getting his hands behind the opponent's head to finish the choke. In my experience, having a shallow hand has led to many a poor choke, so try to either hit the tag, or that wrinkle in the gi that develops directly behind the head. Using the grip points that are totally behind the opponent is incredible leverage
  5. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2011 11:28pm


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    The issue is really fundamental in that I struggle to actually get any effect when practising on a partner, not even got as far as randori. As in I'm barely applying any choking pressure and even in compliant drilling they only grudgingly tap when I've done all the steps and have my head on the mat.

    Though having watched the Hoger video and having had a think about it, I think what I'm doing wrong is flaring my elbows outwards so they're coming out over the top of my knees rather than drawing inwards so they stay inside my knees and go more towards the crotch, which is what the Roger video seems to be saying.
    Just from what you wrote here, it sounds like you're flaring your arms out & applying the choke with arm strength rather than drawing your arms back & applying the choke with back strength through the movement of your shoulders & the expansion of your chest. When you squeeze your choke, do you feel the muscle contraction between your shoulder blades?
  6. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2011 12:51am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    Just from what you wrote here, it sounds like you're flaring your arms out & applying the choke with arm strength rather than drawing your arms back & applying the choke with back strength through the movement of your shoulders & the expansion of your chest. When you squeeze your choke, do you feel the muscle contraction between your shoulder blades?
    This, first and foremost.



    To elaborate and expound, first, always grip as deep as you can on the collar. With the exception of a few chokes, mostly the "rolling chokes" variety, all of the chokes you mentioned benefit from grabbing as deep as possible on his collar. For any choke that doesn't involve crossing your forearms (BJJ guys call these "X chokes"), ideally your hands make contact with each other on the back side of your opponent's collar. As stated, this is not applicable to "X chokes".

    If you do this, you are applying the principle of maximum leverage with minimum effort.

    Next, rotate your forearms once you have pulled your hands to your chest. So if your palm is facing away, you turn it toward yourself and vice versa. If both palms are facing you, turn them both away. If one hand is palm up and one palm down, the same applies. One hand turns down, the other up. Danno mentioned this when he commented that "the wrists are much more important than most people realise with these chokes." Turning your wrist rotates your forearm which also increases your leverage.

    So here's the thing, if you're trying to apply a choke and in doing so, you wristlock yourself, you are out of position to apply the choke. Most of the time, this can be handled by climbing further up on their upper torso. Someone mentioned planting your head on the mat "above" your sparring partner's head. This is an example of "gaining the high ground to finish the choke".

    Finally, once you have done ALL of the above, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you flare your elbows.

    If you can't get your hands to your chest, you're too low on your opponent to choke him effectively.
  7. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2011 1:52am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    let me know what you all think of explaining it this way and if you agree.

    here my hands turn outward are my wrists are bent the wrong way, following the curve of my opponent's neck. the elbows are flared which puts a little pressure on the throat, but hardly any on the arteries/veins i want to hit. faggotry ensues.


    here i've straightened my wrists and turned them towards me. i have not moved my hands closer together, yet there is much less space for the neck to live in. with correct positioning and leverage i can put them to sleep.


    my hands are in exactly the same position as before. they have not moved closer together. yet there is now very little space, and i don't even have my elbows flared yet. all i've done is bend my wrists towards the neck and turned my hands towards myself. that's it.
  8. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2011 4:11am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing that might help with all of the above is doing it from guard rather than mount. Have your partner put his hands on the floor with straight arms so that you have to do a pull up and crunch motion towards him to finish.
  9. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2011 6:33am

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SBG-ape View Post
    Just from what you wrote here, it sounds like you're flaring your arms out & applying the choke with arm strength rather than drawing your arms back & applying the choke with back strength through the movement of your shoulders & the expansion of your chest. When you squeeze your choke, do you feel the muscle contraction between your shoulder blades?
    Yeh the flaring and arm strength to finish is exactly what I'm doing.

    I'm basically doing Danno's picture



    But with a greater flare on the elbows.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Next, rotate your forearms once you have pulled your hands to your chest. So if your palm is facing away, you turn it toward yourself and vice versa. If both palms are facing you, turn them both away. If one hand is palm up and one palm down, the same applies. One hand turns down, the other up. Danno mentioned this when he commented that "the wrists are much more important than most people realise with these chokes." Turning your wrist rotates your forearm which also increases your leverage.
    So I pull in tight, without flaring like so:





    And then rotate?

    Why the rotation, as none of the videos posted so far seem to have covered that part?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Finally, once you have done ALL of the above, THEN AND ONLY THEN can you flare your elbows.
    So you can flare your elbows at the end? Does this not lose some leverage?
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2011 6:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PS. Thanks to all respondents and to Danno for the pictures. Only can fit so much in a post, though.
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