Thread: Juji jime help please
10/25/2011 10:25am, #1
Juji jime help please
I'm terrible at the whole Juji jime (cross choke) family, always have been.
Juji jime reference, for non Judoka:
Juji jime - Cross choke
Gyaku juji jime - Thumbs out
Nami juji jime - Thumbs in
Kata Juji jime -One in, One out
Recently took a BJJ session, because my groundwork needs tightening up and I want an increase in quality sparring partners, unfortunately the club is small satellite and composed of white belts with a purple instructor, will have to expand my travel distance.
Anyway the technique that came up was Gyaku juji jime from the mount and as usual I just can't get it to work.
So any advice on the Juji jime family, from mount, please.
Specifically Gyaku juji jime and Kata juji jime.
BJJ or Judo input is welcome.
10/25/2011 10:36am, #2
For BJJ peeps this is a cross collar choke. The thing that helps me get these is a really deep grip if you are in mount fist on the floor deep. The other rule of thumb my coach likes to mention is making sure there is a fist width of fabric between your hands. I basically reach behind uke's head so that these chokes are all done with my forearms and the collar is only a leverage point. The other key is to pull your elbows to your hips when you apply. Lots of people pull the elbows out instead of in toward their own body.
10/25/2011 10:37am, #3
Check out his elbows and hand placement:
10/25/2011 10:56am, #4
10/25/2011 11:06am, #5
One thing I've been taught that works for me (but that Roger doesn't emphasise in the above vids) is to sprawl onto your elbows once you've set the grips. You can put enough weight down this way that it makes little to no difference whether he's got a hand inside or not.
10/25/2011 1:31pm, #6
Probably didn't help that he showed what I'm guessing is an unconventional entry where from the mount you put both your forearms and forehead on the mat at about 45 degrees to uke's body and then reach out sideways with your arm to establish the initial lapel grip, which none of the other videos I've found show.
Though having watched the Hoger video and having had a think about it, I think what I'm doing wrong is flaring my elbows outwards so they're coming out over the top of my knees rather than drawing inwards so they stay inside my knees and go more towards the crotch, which is what the Roger video seems to be saying.
No doubt the other problems you mention will crop up in due course.
10/25/2011 1:49pm, #7
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Vancouver, BC
- BJJ, judo, rapier
Other people are just better at keeping their balance in mount/suppressing the bump escape with good weight distribution and can more easily work the grip from a more textbook, “central” alignment.
10/25/2011 3:52pm, #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Bonners Ferry, Idaho
- Kodokan Judo
I understand where you are coming from Judoka UK. It's difficult to explain how to use the hands/wrists to apply the chokes correctly, I always have to show people and have them do it to me so I can correct them on the fly.
For one thing, Gyaku is usually used when tori is underneath. Nami more often when on top. Kata can be used for either way. I rarely use Nami from any position, usually from top but I rarely use cross chokes from top, mostly from bottom, for some reason.
The real problem likely is you haven't figured out how to use your wrists correctly. I saw something about keeping them straight, but that isn't what I do. You need to put wrist action into the choke. For Nami, you are choking with the outside edge of your hand and and lower end of your wrist, for Gyaku the thumb side. Done correctly, that is about all it takes to apply them, although of course you need control of uke body as well so they can't escape.
Anyway, you need to bend your wrists so the cutting/contact edge is in full contact with the carotid triangle area. This will work if the cloth is doing the cutting as well. this brings full contact/no space between the wrist/cloth and the neck. The other advice about not pulling the arms apart is correct as well of course.
The final trick is to be able to apply the weight of your (an uke at time) bodies to your wrists and hence uke neck. Combine the wrist action and that, and people go to sleep very quickly and painlessly.Falling for Judo since 1980
"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS
10/25/2011 4:18pm, #9
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Thousand Oaks, CA
- BJJ, Boxing
I apologize ahead of time if this video is a repost, I cannot see what has been posted already while at work (streaming is blocked w/firewalls).
This one is one of my favorites because of how well everything is broken down and explained. I also find it works very well because of the simplicity. I was never catching the cross from the top & always being swept until I slowed down and followed this video step by step:
I hope this helps.
10/25/2011 4:34pm, #10
Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Lafayette, LA
- Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ
Here's a tip. Incrementally tighten the choke, millimeter by millimeter.
Once I set my hands usually in gyaku I start applying constant steady pressure focusing on flexing my bottom arm which has the fingers in like I'm curling a dumbbell. My top hand will grab the back of the gi and I will not generally use the lapel making a cats paw grip. This allows me to move my top hand tighter in small increments. Elbows stay tight and I puff out my chest while pulling and flexing my elbows.
I use to struggle with them now I do them from mount guard and standing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk please ignore typos.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.