Stupid move keeps working: criticize inside.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 10/25/2011 9:58am

So I've been pulling off a head and arm hip throw from my knees lately. It has been consistently working on people up to advanced blue belts. I'm half giving up my back just so I can get the sleeve and head grip then draggin them right over into Kesa. As long as I set the grip up right I can do it in Gi and No-Gi but it is obviously easier in Gi because of the sleeve grip.

So, how stupid is this and is anyone else able to get away with it on equally skilled training partners? I did it to one Purple but it was during a pretty low intensity roll.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 10/25/2011 12:06pm

Besides the obvious which is some guys don't mind being on their back you may be hitting it just right. Head to shoulder usually locks them up.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/25/2011 2:36pm

In my stint of submission grappling, that was the first way taught to transition from kneeling to the ground, then other kneeling techniques were put aside to teach positioning etc on the ground. This led to everyone trying to do it while rolling for lack of better options. Some people got wise to this, and if someone grabbed their wrist, they could anticipate the other arm wrapping the head right after, and if they could duck under it they'd have the better position. Or, the person attempting it would only use their upper body to make the attempt and their lower body wouldn't go over too, so it would turn into one of those situations where one guy's holding an ineffective headlock for dear life while the other guy is behind him but can't quite get his head free to capitalize.

**SBG-ape** · Posted On: 10/25/2011 11:20pm

Just to clarify: Do you mean dropping to your knees as you throw or beginning from your knees as part of mat work? The former makes sense, the latter seems weird. I mean, you're kneeling & they are doing what? Are they playing guard? Are they facing you in quarters? Are they kneeling too?

If both you & your opponent are kneeling then what's the point of the move? Outside of rolling casually at the gym, when will you be kneeling & facing another kneeling opponent? It's a pet peeve of mine when 2 people fight for takedown from the knees, although it's seems less common than the equally silly double guard pull. If the fights on the mat there's the built in assumption that somebody already got the takedown. 2 people fighting from the knees is a useless artificiality. Someone should pull guard. When I see 2 guys fighting form the knees my typical response is to yell "no midget Judo!" I suppose you could set it up as a sweep from open guard, but that's a long transition into the turn, why not just hip bump?

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 10/26/2011 8:43am

No I'm usually doing it from turtle. It is not the beginning of the roll just something I've been playing with as a reversal. It started because I had been experimenting with the Sakuraba style kimura from giving up your back. Occasionally I can get the head wrapped and it has been easy to pull people over once I set my hips.

**SBG-ape** · Posted On: 10/26/2011 8:53am

Ok. Still trying to picture it. Let me know if I'm in the ball park: You're in quarters bottom, they are sprawled in front of you, you grab the arm, they cicrleto take the back, you catch the head & use their circle as part of your back step & roll you through to complete the hip throw. Something like that?