1947 Judo. What have we lost?

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 10:29am

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?...64TtKnQ&sns=em

Ok take a good serious look at the techniques demonstrated. She is pretty good. Why wasn't this expanded on? Why did Americans dismiss Judo?

Look at what happened to every other sport in America that was being done at that time. Look at the advancements, innovations and progressions that was made in them. Why didn't we do this with Judo?

BJJ was in it's embryonic stages at this time. The Brazilians grew Judo groundwork by leaps and bounds in the same time period and we are basically a third world country when it comes to martial arts.

Instead of being a leader in this area we are a joke for the most part, aside from a few exceptions.

I blame the infighting and politics of Judo for this. I blame the arrogance of people who thought they knew better and the idiocy of those that followed them. I blame money and the lack of it.

Judo was not thought of as a profession yet we pay college coaches millions for a game that contributed very little to society besides entertainment.

In a nutshell we, judo instructors, fucked up.

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**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 10:37am

Your link is broked, needs to be

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 10:41am

Meh, the Olympics fucked you. Murika likes its sports professional.

PS that was a crappy headlock defense.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 12:36pm

Josh why do you think that's 'Judo'? And why would it be a shame to have lost that?

Also surely you're coming at this from the wrong direction, that's a promo vid. The American people saw that and didn't want to know. Why would going back to that when its clear it wasn't successful, be productive?

Also if we did that kind of stuff now we'd be in even worse shape, because we'd look like every 10 a penny dogshite 'Jiujutsu' group out there.

No thank's.

I'll stick to this

With more time for newaza and a tougher criteria for scoring ippon.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 3:47pm

How is this not Judo?

Yea it's a demo and somethings are not perfect but come on you're confusing self defense with competition.

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**simonifrius** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 6:08pm

I can't comment on the state of Judo or any infighting or politics, but from Judo sprung BJJ, Sambo, modern submission grappling in general, and MMA. I think I understand your statement that Judo in the West hasn't grown impressively AS JUDO, but I don't know anything about that. But Judo has definitely had a heavy hand in changing martial arts.

**BKR** · Posted On: 10/21/2011 10:21pm

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?...64TtKnQ&sns=em

Ok take a good serious look at the techniques demonstrated. She is pretty good. Why wasn't this expanded on? Why did Americans dismiss Judo?

Look at what happened to every other sport in America that was being done at that time. Look at the advancements, innovations and progressions that was made in them. Why didn't we do this with Judo?

BJJ was in it's embryonic stages at this time. The Brazilians grew Judo groundwork by leaps and bounds in the same time period and we are basically a third world country when it comes to martial arts.

Instead of being a leader in this area we are a joke for the most part, aside from a few exceptions.

I blame the infighting and politics of Judo for this. I blame the arrogance of people who thought they knew better and the idiocy of those that followed them. I blame money and the lack of it.

Judo was not thought of as a profession yet we pay college coaches millions for a game that contributed very little to society besides entertainment.

In a nutshell we, judo instructors, fucked up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk please ignore typos.

A combination of things happened. Bruce Lee, Karate, Kung Fu, TKD, and now BJJ.

At one point, Judo was the "premier" martial art in the USA. Combine the competition from the above arts (beginning with karate, then Bruce Lee and KF) and the massive fail of judo politics in the US, and there you have it.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 10/22/2011 11:29am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

How is this not Judo?

Because its just a collection of unrealistic stylised responses to choreographed attacks, which you could say is a kata or the Goshin Jutsu. And there's a reason that those techniques were confined to the Goshin Jutsu and aren't a regular part of Judo practice in randori, kata in the general sense of drills and pre-arranged practice or shiai.

As Kano couldn't find a way to have those techniques meet his criteria of seiryoku zenyo or jita kyoei. As to ensure jita kyoei you compromised seiryoku zenyo and to ensure seiryoku zenyo you compromised jita kyoei.

Hence they were confined to the Goshin Jutsu, like those odd bits of DNA that are still part of our code, but don't feature in our current genetic make up.

Now after another 70/80 odd years of martial arts experimentation we, and those outside of us in Sambo and BJJ, still haven't found or have found deeply unsatisfactory ways to try and implement those kind of techniques that meet their looser concepts of efficiency and partner safety, but which are still fundamentally linked back to Kano's seiryoku zenyo and jita kyoei.

The standing armlocks, standing hammerlocks, hair pulling etc... all found to be either too ineffective or too dangerous to use in day to day practice and therefore very difficult if not impossible to become proficient in to use in actual fighting.

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

Yea it's a demo and somethings are not perfect but come on you're confusing self defense with competition.

No I'm not, the majority of the things shown in the video are utterly useless for self defence, because they can't be trained with aliveness, as I've explained above.

I know how easy it is to get frustrated with Judo and where its going and where its been and especially in the US context where things seem even worse than over here, but going backwards against seiryoku zenyo and jita kyoei going back away from aliveness into dead patterns. That's not going to help us and its not where we want to go.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 10/22/2011 4:25pm

Well I will have to disagree with you. Standing armlocks work I do them in BJJ judo MMA and self defense. I seen them work at the Olympic level.

Again look at her movement and the way she is throwing how she is technically sound.

Yes it's Kata but that was the purpose of kata to be able to CONTINUALLY practice self defense skills in the event you had to use them to defend yourself not win a match.

My point is that with American ingenuity and monetary support for an activity with so many benefits besides self defense think of the methods and innovations we could have in Judo.

Maybe because it wasn't solely American like say basketball. It was relegated to sub amateur status.

Judo has a rich history in England so your perspective may be off a little JUK.

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