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  1. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 3:26am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    shihan is not an official title in the booj. it used to be 10+ dan, but a "true" shihan is 15th dan, or so I read somewhere.
  2. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 3:34am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FinalLegion View Post
    Yes, I am well aware of that. The Dai Nippon had all of it's authority that was granted through the Japanese government...the Ministry of Education, I think.... when they voluntarily surrendered their charter during the U.S. occupation of Japan. The DNBK started in 1953 is a purely fraternal order now and it's main goal is to peacefully improve international relations via the martial arts, which is a far cry from what they did before that.

    The point I was getting to was that it was the DNBK that organized the standards of how the Shihan title is awarded and I don't know of any school of JMA that deviates from that. AS I sad, though, the DNBK does not recognize the Bujinkan as legit organization, so however the point is most likely moot. I'm sure Hatsumi has 'standards' all his own for doling out Shihan.
    Well, you finally stumbled upon what I was getting at. The modern DNBK is just an organization that set it's own standards, and has no authority to grant anything outside of members of the DNBK. Which guess what, costs money.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 6:32am

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    A new organization using the same name is now extant, and issues teachers titles (hanshi, renshi) but it's not like they are some official overlord of martial arts in Japan.
    You have to actually be a member of the Dai Nippon Butokukai for them to be in a position to award any form of grading or title.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 6:36am

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalLegion View Post
    The point I was getting to was that it was the DNBK that organized the standards of how the Shihan title is awarded and I don't know of any school of JMA that deviates from that.
    Try Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu for starters.

    The current most senior person in the Ryu is Yasusada Iizasa a blood descendant of the system's founder. He doesn't even study the system but appointed Otake Risuke Minamoto no Takeyuki as the Ryu's chief instructor.

    Within this Koryu there are no dan rankings.
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 10/22/2011 6:45am at .
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 9:49am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    You have to actually be a member of the Dai Nippon Butokukai for them to be in a position to award any form of grading or title.
    Yes, he knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    The modern DNBK is just an organization that set it's own standards, and has no authority to grant anything outside of members of the DNBK. Which guess what, costs money.
  6. FinalLegion is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 1:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Try Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu for starters.

    The current most senior person in the Ryu is Yasusada Iizasa a blood descendant of the system's founder. He doesn't even study the system but appointed Otake Risuke Minamoto no Takeyuki as the Ryu's chief instructor.

    Within this Koryu there are no dan rankings.
    I looked at a few websites and wow...that's a pretty ancient koryu. I think it's amazing and pretty damn cool that it's survived into the present day. I also like the fact that their curriculum covers a lot of different fighting arts.

    I didn't see any references to any kind of grading system, but I was perusing rather casually. Does it employ a grade/ranking system of any type?
  7. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/22/2011 1:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalLegion View Post
    I didn't see any references to any kind of grading system, but I was perusing rather casually. Does it employ a grade/ranking system of any type?
    Like many koryu, TSKSR uses the Menkyo system of licencing.

    Generally speaking, the head of the Ryu hand writes a scroll dictating what part of the school's curriculum an individual has mastered, and therefore permitted to teach. That document is given to the individual.

    Roughly speaking - and this isn't specific to TSKSR, a student will pass through a number stage in training over a life time's worth of study:

    Okuiri
    Mokuroku
    Shomokuroku
    Gomokuroku
    Menkyo
    Menkyo Kaiden

    Menkyo Kaiden is the highest level of licence and means an individual has mastered all levels of a Ryu and has authority to teach as 'Complete Transmission'
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
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