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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 12:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    So here's a question, particularly for the no-gloves fu jow guy: do you use leopard fists when you spar? What do you do with them?
    No, and not with my gloves anyway the knuckles are still exposed and the punch would be overkill, imho.

    For example if Bobby and I ever sparred I wouldn't be trying to re-fracture his floating rib with piercing jabs. You can still hit a bag with them through but it takes time to work that up.

    Pao kuen in the arm hurts like a bitch.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/23/2011 12:50pm at .
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 2:02pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I sometimes used them when I'd spar Chickenbeakfist in the park, but the application was different than what you might expect. I'd like to hear some other opinions though. I'm not a big fan of them. A CLF sifu I knew used to do push ups on them for conditioning.
  3. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 3:01pm

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunggar_student View Post
    1. I said tiger is the heart of the system and it is true. The first form compiled by Hung Hei Goon (or Koon) consisted of the black tiger system he had learned in the temple from the Abbot Chi Sin Sim See. The Crane was added latter, by most accounts learned from his wife and is included in the second form. The Tiger and Crane are the two most used animals in the system still today, but No, I take nothing away from the other 3. (4 if we count the mantus latter added to the system.)


    2. Tiger has many closed fist techniques, but we have to acknowledge that the use of the gloves (with no finger holes) restrict 90% of the grappling techniques from the tiger and all of the claws.

    As for the LWS jab the Lam family has added as much to the system and been as respected custodians as the Wongs were, and, I might add is now in the third generation of gardianship of the Hung system so I fail to see why my respect of Lam Sai Wing would be anything strange?

    Anyhow, off to work with me, and Rabbit, I did not intend to hijack your thread. We just done things differently and I intend to train just as I have in the past but have to get up off my lazy @$$ to do it, so, have a good day.
    most of us on bullshido don't buy the claims that most southern kung fu really had shaolin ties. most historians have found the claims to be unlikely and just good marketing techniques from some point in the past. i have seen no evidence that the system actually started with tiger, personally.

    as to the closed fist/open hand thing, i was trying to see if you were even aware that tiger is an attitude and an approach rather than a set of techniques, per se. i find that boxing gloves do not reduce my ability to attack with the spirit of the tiger.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I don't think Ming meant anything by the lineage zinger, it was a good rub. I thought it was the best Hung ga joke I'd heard in weeks...
    just like WR, i'm a tang fung guy, you should expect a bit of lineage teasing from us.

    to be serious, i do tend to find the tang fung approach to be better than the LSW approach, but what do you expect from a tang fung guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    So here's a question, particularly for the no-gloves fu jow guy: do you use leopard fists when you spar? What do you do with them?
    i don't use the leopard fist position in sparring but i do the strikes with a normal fist. i find the best use of the actual leopard position to be to swipe it downwards across the bridge of the nose, as it can be nasty that way, and really open up the nose. most of the other strikes with that fist take more time to condition and that time might be better spent on other skills.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  4. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 3:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I don't think Ming meant anything by the lineage zinger, it was a good rub. I thought it was the best Hung ga joke I'd heard in weeks...
    I don't get it. Can you explain it to this white monkey please?
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 3:54pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    I don't get it. Can you explain it to this white monkey please?
    There is a long version that involves a lot of oral tradition but the short version is this:

    The two major Hung ga branches are the Lam Sai Wing and the Tang Fung lineages. Both were students of Wong Fei Hung, one of China's most successful pugilistic duelists.

    Whereas LSW was known for adding and modifying Wong's original techniques (why not experiment), Tang Fung was nick-named "Old Square Mind" for teaching as close to the original WFH techniques as possible (they worked, after all).

    As I understand it the LSW branches are much more numerous and diverse, there are LSW schools all over the world. Tang fung lineage is I think much more rare to find, in the states there are really just a couple of schools I've found. I know of Tang Fung schools in Greece, the UK...

    Ming and I share a sigung (sifu's sifu) I think. I forget.

    His joke is just a jab between lineages, pun intended.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/23/2011 4:00pm at .
  6. hunggar_student is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 9:22pm


     Style: Hung Gar / Choy Li Fut

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Yes, it's also known as Fo Chin Kuen.

    My "What?" still stands.

    Are you unfamiliar with the 5 animals of Hung Kuen?

    Disregarding the rather insulting nature of your question, No, I am not unfamiliar with the fave major animals of Hung Kuen.
    However, the fact that we use the others does not change the fact that Hung fist started out tiger and that is still at the heart of the system today.
  7. hunggar_student is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 9:33pm


     Style: Hung Gar / Choy Li Fut

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    So here's a question, particularly for the no-gloves fu jow guy: do you use leopard fists when you spar? What do you do with them?

    Yes, I use leopard paw, but pull the strike for obvious reasons. Targets include most anything below the throat including ribs and groin. While it is not the most used fist in the system, it is very effective but yes, it takes some time to condition for harder strikes and yes, the pushups help with that but can also cause problems latter (as I was told) without the use of proper jow's.

    I believe Hung Ga to be the best system for me and the training methods we used in the 80's to be best for that system.
    All of our past masters cannot be wrong?
  8. hunggar_student is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 9:42pm


     Style: Hung Gar / Choy Li Fut

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    most of us on bullshido don't buy the claims that most southern kung fu really had shaolin ties. most historians have found the claims to be unlikely and just good marketing techniques from some point in the past. i have seen no evidence that the system actually started with tiger, personally.
    I guess that is your right, Most of us who train traditional accept the lineage handed down by our Sifu's. If I cannot believe the masters before me I am only training to fight and not a traditional Martial Artist.

    as to the closed fist/open hand thing, i was trying to see if you were even aware that tiger is an attitude and an approach rather than a set of techniques, per se. i find that boxing gloves do not reduce my ability to attack with the spirit of the tiger.
    Spirit yes, but I stand by my statement concerning the techniques.


    just like WR, i'm a tang fung guy, you should expect a bit of lineage teasing from us.

    to be serious, i do tend to find the tang fung approach to be better than the LSW approach, but what do you expect from a tang fung guy?
    Which, I suppose you would expect nothing different from Lam lineage than to be partial to the Lam approach. That said, I can respect teaching the way you were taught, this is the same conditions Sifu put on us.


    i don't use the leopard fist position in sparring but i do the strikes with a normal fist. i find the best use of the actual leopard position to be to swipe it downwards across the bridge of the nose, as it can be nasty that way, and really open up the nose. most of the other strikes with that fist take more time to condition and that time might be better spent on other skills.
    True, the conditioning takes more time, and if you do the pushups for leopard have a ready supply of jow.

    However, even though I hold the tiger to be the heart of the system, the rest of our animal forms and techniques were added for a reason and are part of the system. Every motion of every form serves a purpose and we should continue to train in all skills of our system imo.
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/24/2011 12:32am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as Hung Ga's Shaolin roots....who really knows. The lineage definitely goes back far enough but I'm afraid so much history is lost and unverifiable. I personally don't mind any of the "stories" whether they be about Damo or Hung hei gun.

    Even my own sifu's position is "who really knows..anyways punch at my head". But he teaches the origin of the lineage the way he was taught out of respect to the style.

    It's ironic because of movies like 36th Chamber and Eight Diagram Pole Fighter, people who think they are watching Shaolin kung fu are actually watching Hung ga...which owes more to which?

    Gordon Liu's hung ga has done more for Shaolin Kung fu in the last 30 years than the Temple itself, imho.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/24/2011 12:37am at .
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/24/2011 12:39am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hunggar_student View Post
    Admitting that I could not force myself to watch the entire vid, I have to say this is not Hung Ga and would take a stretch to call it Kung Fu of any kind.
    Ha hahhahahahahaaaaaaaaa
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