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  1. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 3:25pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    I think this is an important point. Lots of Aikido kata involves long drawn-out techniques, and in most all cases it is due to uke attempting to counter (I daren't say resist) a much shorter technique. Once Uke starts treating his role as following and falling, rather than blending and countering, all those long forms are utterly pointless.

    That's where we are with 'you-tube' Aikido. Tori does big, long, complex forms. Uke follows along and flies.

    EDIT: A lot could be helped by teaching techniques in pairs every time. Form and Counter.
    1. We do the form,
    2. We do the counter
    3. We do the form while uke ACTUALLY tries to counter
    Then move on to the next technique. No techniques in isolation.

    I may implement that starting immediatly!
    LOL, welcome to proper judo training, we've missed you!
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. RWaggs is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 3:33pm


     Style: KK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Ignore Hedge he's just frustrated he never get's laid

    My answer is simple... Smash the **** in the face then, when he's either stunned and or wondering WTF was that, drive irimi or sokumen irimi nage home - but that wouldn't be very "aiki" would it lol
    My feelings exactly. Strikeyjutsu.
  3. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 3:35pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by realjanuary View Post
    The leg injury is a definite possiblity, but it doesn't come from the reaping. The problem is with psychic ukes who either fall on top of the leg before the throw or try to fall to the tori side when they're being thrown the other way. I've come close to having beginners mess cripple me more than once with this.
    I've had that happen rarely in Judo, so I know what you mean. It was always a beginner as well. In my experience it's more a matter of having an uke who is good enough for that level of training.


    Some possible solutions:
    throw them sofly and carefully, making sure they don't try to fall too early and they build the skills of taking just enough fall for the throw
    throw them vigorously so they don't have an option to fall in the wrong direction
    Right, you have to make sure uke is up to the task by having worked on simpler stuff to build skill and condifence. Good control by tori will also insure that uke falls where you want him to fall instead of uke being able to launch himself in some other direction.

    For the "falling the wrong direction" problem the leg reap can actually protect your leg. Look at Tissier's iriminage which is nearly a rear hip throw.
    That sort of "rear hip throw" is the type of kuzushi/entry for Osoto Gari I mentioned earlier in another post that I saw as related to irimi nage.

    Regarding clothes-line style irimi nage: that's a no-no where I train. It doesn't exagerate the upward motion of uke's head and it can rely too much on muscling them. The vertical hand, like tenchi nage, is the prefered method, although it can be across the collarbone for consideration of uke.
    Clothes lining is pretty rude and can be dangerous for sure. As for muscling, sometimes it's necessary but not desired in a practical situation. If uke isn't perfectly off balance and tori is committed fully, backing out can be dangerous for tori.

    I'm assuming "vertical hand" would either go under the chin or against their chest. This would be similar to tsurite in Judo but with no grip.

    I believe that ura style iriminage (the spinning around one) happens best when uke is on the cusp of reversing it, that's why their hip are coming forward and you can break them backwards. If they're not trying to neutralise the effect tori has on them by following and looking for the escape (i.e. the important part of ukemi other than how do fall) irimi-nage is supurfluous, you can keep them broken forward and mash them into the ground or clinch and knee (but that's not the done thing in aikido).
    As in Judo combination (renraku waza or renzoku waza), tori does something then uke reaction determines what happens next until resolution occurs.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 3:38pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    This is true, I threw a teenager like this a few months back in randori.

    I think I was more surprised than he was.
    Try doing some uchi komi but do it on purpose. It's an interesting exercise and help understand how your hips work in throwing and how to plaster uke to you.

    I keep telling my students all judo nage waza are koshi waza. Just to make them think.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 3:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    What's strange for me, as someone who's studied both Iwama Ryu and Aikikai, is that I see both sides of a number of coins, for a while this conflicted me but eventually I just separated the two methodologies, what I found then, was I was able to practice with both groups without the frustrations associated with the style variations, although, I used to quietly laugh to myself when some aikikai aikidoka couldn't cope with required ukemi I'd force them into. Then semi-complain that I was being too severe with them LMFAO.

    Just to add, anyone bending forward as seen in the image, without me intending that to happen would be driven to the floor face first, not collected back-up (which is what would happen in the image after the picture was taken)
    They are already going that way, why help them stand back up, right?

    LOL at aikiki guys whining about you making them take ukemi. That says it all right there.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 3:59pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Here is a serious attempt to take the Goshin Jutsu (no kata) of Judo seriously. I've done this as uke for a very skilled tori, a very petite woman (5' and 105 lbs) who is also a VERY skilled judoka in the regular randori and shiai sense. She missed the 92 olympics because she broke her back in a vehicle accident a few months beforehand.

    Anyway, the first time I did this with her I asked her if she really wanted me to a.) grab her like I mean it 2.) Try to punch/kick her for real 3.) really whack here with the stick/sword/tanto.

    I knew I was in trouble when she gave me an evil grin and nodded.

    So I did, and can honestly say that the techniques work in the given contest, which is NOT supposed to be against a trained mma/muy thai/boxer.

    Anyway, for you aikidoka, you can probably see the influence of Tomiki Kenji, who was on the committee who designed this modern (at the time) replacement for Kime No Kata. You hard core bullshido'ites will probably call larping or make comparisons to some of the earlier faux jujitsu larp videos. That's OK, we judoka can't be totally awesome all the time.

    I have been told that this was not originally intended to be a kata, but I think what is called Goshin Jutsu Ho (methods). I've also been told that what we see today is just the first basic part, and that there are layers of action reaction that (used to) exist and be trained more regularly. One of my teachers told me that he saw much older judoka practicing this kata and going through layers of such sequences.

    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 6:10pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Clothes lining is pretty rude and can be dangerous for sure.
    The way I was taught iriminage the clotheslining is not as hard as it looks, because uke's posture is broken backwards and the hand placed in the collar/shoulder pulls uke too, so the impact of the clotheslining arm is not harder than in a sidemount escape.
  8. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 7:24pm

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    My answer is simple... Smash the **** in the face then, when he's either stunned and or wondering WTF was that, drive irimi or sokumen irimi nage home - but that wouldn't be very "aiki" would it lol
    Your martial art is pretty terrible if it only works on someone who's already been knocked out. At that point you're not even fighting. You're fucking his corpse.


    "The only important elements in any society
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  9. Tom .C is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 7:28pm

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     Style: Aikido,Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    Your martial art is pretty terrible if it only works on someone who's already been knocked out. At that point you're not even fighting. You're fucking his corpse.
    Would that tactic be to dangerous for the ring?
  10. diducdat? is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 8:48pm


     Style: yellow bamboo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Regarding skirts, if some of the aikibabes I've seen had been wearing mini skirts I'd have probably quit Judo and done aikikai.
    All the Aikibroads I've seen were overweight and dikey-looking. Sure you didnt have your beer goggles on?
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