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  1. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 5:27am


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bkr View Post
    see, judo and aikido are not really that different!
    heretic!!!

    Burn the witch!!


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  2. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 6:49am


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The leg injury is a definite possiblity, but it doesn't come from the reaping. The problem is with psychic ukes who either fall on top of the leg before the throw or try to fall to the tori side when they're being thrown the other way. I've come close to having beginners mess cripple me more than once with this.
    Some possible solutions:
    throw them sofly and carefully, making sure they don't try to fall too early and they build the skills of taking just enough fall for the throw
    throw them vigorously so they don't have an option to fall in the wrong direction

    For the "falling the wrong direction" problem the leg reap can actually protect your leg. Look at Tissier's iriminage which is nearly a rear hip throw.

    Regarding clothes-line style irimi nage: that's a no-no where I train. It doesn't exagerate the upward motion of uke's head and it can rely too much on muscling them. The vertical hand, like tenchi nage, is the prefered method, although it can be across the collarbone for consideration of uke.

    I believe that ura style iriminage (the spinning around one) happens best when uke is on the cusp of reversing it, that's why their hip are coming forward and you can break them backwards. If they're not trying to neutralise the effect tori has on them by following and looking for the escape (i.e. the important part of ukemi other than how do fall) irimi-nage is supurfluous, you can keep them broken forward and mash them into the ground or clinch and knee (but that's not the done thing in aikido).
  3. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 7:29am


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by realjanuary View Post
    I believe that ura style iriminage (the spinning around one) happens best when uke is on the cusp of reversing it, that's why their hip are coming forward and you can break them backwards. If they're not trying to neutralise the effect tori has on them by following and looking for the escape (i.e. the important part of ukemi other than how do fall) irimi-nage is supurfluous, you can keep them broken forward and mash them into the ground or clinch and knee (but that's not the done thing in aikido).
    I think this is an important point. Lots of Aikido kata involves long drawn-out techniques, and in most all cases it is due to uke attempting to counter (I daren't say resist) a much shorter technique. Once Uke starts treating his role as following and falling, rather than blending and countering, all those long forms are utterly pointless.

    That's where we are with 'you-tube' Aikido. Tori does big, long, complex forms. Uke follows along and flies.

    EDIT: A lot could be helped by teaching techniques in pairs every time. Form and Counter.
    1. We do the form,
    2. We do the counter
    3. We do the form while uke ACTUALLY tries to counter
    Then move on to the next technique. No techniques in isolation.

    I may implement that starting immediatly!
    Last edited by Ignorami; 10/14/2011 7:33am at .


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 9:57am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Osoto Gari in Judo is basically Irimi Nage. If you do it well enough, you don't need to reap the leg, it's kind of like insurance.
    This is true, I threw a teenager like this a few months back in randori.

    I think I was more surprised than he was.
  5. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 12:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by realjanuary View Post
    Regarding clothes-line style irimi nage: that's a no-no where I train.
    And in the style I practised, bending uke forward like this


    is a WTF are you (both uke and tori) doing?
  6. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 12:44pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    And in the style I practised, bending uke forward like this


    is a WTF are you (both uke and tori) doing?
    What's strange for me, as someone who's studied both Iwama Ryu and Aikikai, is that I see both sides of a number of coins, for a while this conflicted me but eventually I just separated the two methodologies, what I found then, was I was able to practice with both groups without the frustrations associated with the style variations, although, I used to quietly laugh to myself when some aikikai aikidoka couldn't cope with required ukemi I'd force them into. Then semi-complain that I was being too severe with them LMFAO.

    Just to add, anyone bending forward as seen in the image, without me intending that to happen would be driven to the floor face first, not collected back-up (which is what would happen in the image after the picture was taken)
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  7. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 12:49pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a little better look.

    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  8. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 12:57pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A friend of mine teaches it a lot like that, his logic is when uke is trying to stand up again is a great time to help him on his way up and over.
  9. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 1:07pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    A friend of mine teaches it a lot like that, his logic is when uke is trying to stand up again is a great time to help him on his way up and over.
    Indeed, I've understood that myself however, common sense dictates why stand him back up when you've already pushed him to the ground, only to then apply a technique which has a lower percentage chance of success.

    I've pulled off Irimi nage when I was in the prison service, it looked nothing like a dojo technique and the guy I applied it on... He spent a week or so in hospital with compression of the spine. He didn't like me very much after that.. Well less than he did before anyway LOL
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  10. RWaggs is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 1:10pm


     Style: KK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    A friend of mine teaches it a lot like that, his logic is when uke is trying to stand up again is a great time to help him on his way up and over.
    I've found that most people, when you put them down that far, are going all the way down...you'll never get the chance at the reverse. That looked pretty stylized.
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