Posted On:11/28/2002 8:23pm
were i go we hit with the ball of the foot.
Posted On:11/28/2002 10:13pm
with a round kick?
Posted On:11/29/2002 2:22am
yes, lots of karate schools also do this.
Posted On:11/29/2002 3:38am
well if you're kicking hard enough and following through, you'd easily hurt your foot and ankle......you don't snap your kick, do you?
Posted On:11/29/2002 4:42am
Scroll back and review our conversation. I mentioned gliding steps as well as hops. I mentioned how its done in shooting and the cross punch. You called all of that faggotry. You said leaving the ground in any way shape or form on purpose was faggotry.
Watch Maurice Smith again. You can see the space between his foot and the ground plainly. Unless you count dragging your toes along the mat as you spin in the air a pivot. As for Pete Williams look at the rest of the kicks he has thrown in NHB events and you'll see the same form as that kick. It wasn't because he was tired. He was just trying to be fast and he didn't want to telegraph the kick like you do. This was just one example anyway. I have a ton of better ones.
Watch Bennet on the page you sent me and not on the McBeatdown download because it has his three steps before the kick on that footage. The kicking leg is clearly on its way to the target before his base leg takes the repositioning (hop) step. You have to be somebody who has done this for years to pick up on his weight shifts and where his back is in relation to his legs and how his knee is loose .. or you have to be smart. You aren't either one of those I guess. *shrug*
McDonald uses the whip for low kicks and close range kicks but for his long range kicks he uses the side guard and pivots sometimes. MT as opposed to the K1 is an exclusively short range art. In MT competition if you back away and try to go long range you get points against you. Review the rules on that here:
&gt;the Newton kick had no power, it was a
&gt;set-up for a punch
It had enough power to make the other guy spin to the side and drop his guard. What is a kick to the knee supposed to do, knock the guy out?
Power is generated from speed moreso than from having a strong base. Throw a baseball at a guy's head and see what happens to him as opposed to standing there holding it firmly in your hand and smacking him with it. Velocity IS power.
If your weight is firmly planted then it isn't being thrust behind your punch. Watch Robbie Lawler punch. He dives all his weight into every punch and throws his shoulder into it. That's how to punch. Not some sissy jabs. [speed x distance x mass = force]
&gt;Frank was definitely pivoting, but he
&gt;certainly isn't the best model for proper
&gt;kicking anyway...neither is Tito
Frank Shamrock may not have as strong of a kicking background as grappling but his low kicks are some of the best in NHB. (Maybe its because he wasn't conditioned to do it wrong through years of point sparring) Anyway, he pivoted once out of the three kicks in that series. It was a 1/4 pivot at that. Look at the first kick, his toes are facing completely forward until the kick misses. On the second one he hops. On the third one the kick clearly pulls the pivot and not vice versa so its not pivot generated as you described. He holds the front guard through the whole series. He is mobile. The kicks fly in there ahead of the repositioning base leg.
Tito is learning. His round kick to Ken's midsection this weekend at UFC 40 was pretty weak. It was pivot generated with a big step telegraphing it.
&gt;It sucks being wrong, doesn't it 9chambers?
I wouldn't know. I am RIGHT. You even know I'm right but you won't admit it because it might tarnish your troll reputation. I have nothing against the pivot. Its standard for any kick that comes from the side guard. (I do hate the side guard though) The chambered round kick needs a pivot to have enough power to even get to the target. But that's just not Muay Thai.
MT kicks swing directly from the ground to the target. Maybe some guys who compete or even teach (now that MT is all popular) don't get that but that's the way it is supposed to be done. Go here to see ACTUAL Muay Thai fighters doing it the right way:
Our argument was about hops and jumps and things though. You said coming off the ground on purpose = disaster. In general that may be a good guideline. I wouldn't try to pull some flying jump kick from across the room stuff. But all footwork involves relaxing your knee so you can slide your feet around. All footwork involves taking little steps and small repositioning hops (centimeters or less off the ground not flying across the room) .. and occasionally people jump or even dive or roll. Its common. I don't get why that is so hard to understand. You are sheltered. Get into some of the martial arts clubs at your college. Experience new things.
You just got in a grudge match with me and you don't want to look like an idiot now that you've invested so much time into this. That's my guess. You want to win this argument really bad so you don't look like a quiter. Well, its a waste of time. Forget about it and move on. I honestly don't care if you learn anything anymore. I don't know you or care about you. Go ahead and pretend you were right. Stick your chest out and be proud. Everyone who isn't your clone is a ****** so try not to bend over much when you leave your dojo. I'm done with you. Class is dismissed.
&gt;&gt; Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643
Edited by - 9chambers on November 29 2002 05:40:49
Posted On:11/29/2002 5:52am
JKDChick, first of all, I'm really sorry about your bad experiences with TKD. Bruce Lee in my opinion, is one of the greatest martial artists to ever walk the earth. Even though this is comming from someone relatively new to martial arts, I think that everyone should have respect for a person's decision to take a certain martial art. It's not because I take TKD, it's because how would you feel if your martial art was labeled as a "McDojo" art and you took verbal abuse for it day in and day out. I'm standing by my idea that it's not the martial art, but the martial artist. When I was little, I watched tons of martial arts movies, and I got this weird idea in my head that all martial artists respected each other, kind of like a secret brotherhood. I'm giving up on this thread, it's a neverending arguement that's going to go on and on.
Decafinated white belt.
Posted On:11/29/2002 6:14am
Its not lack of respect for the arists, that make us hate McDojo's. Its asses trying to make money (or even abuse kids) through a dojo/dojang. And, the crap they teach people. That annoys a lot of more knowledgable artists.
Did I mention point sparring and kata really annoy some people? Like me?
Regarding my kicks - no I don't snap. I want to follow throw and actually do something with the kick. The whole ankle pain started when I took my kicks to the bag instead of hitting air (where you HAVE to snap, obviously). I just don't like it. Front kicks I'll footjab, but I just don't get dishrag-kickiing with your front leg. I just feel like Its an opening I'm giving my opponent. If its a front-kick foot-jab I feel more covered. Not that I don't keep my hands up, but you get the idea.
&lt;Me&gt; John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? &lt;John&gt; *smacks me*
&lt;John&gt; I'd have to smack you sometime...
Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
Posted On:11/29/2002 6:41am
HAHA, that was a good way of covering up that you have no clue what you're talking about, and I clearly do.
My chest is sticking out and I am proudly beating it in my verbal victory over your sorry TKD ass.....
btw, knee kicks are NOT supposed to KO......but buckle the leg....Newtons did neither, as it was a set-up for a punch, but obvioulsy you don't that since you're not allowed to punch to the face
Posted On:11/29/2002 5:00pm
Style: HKD, TKD, Crappling
Let us be very clear:
I am the first to step up on my soap box and shake my fist at 90% (my estimate) of the TKD instructors in this country and call them liars and thieves. They choose to teach the watered down, easy to learn Olympic Style to the masses and pass it off as a martial art. There is nothing "martial" about what they are teaching. They put their BS in nice, neat little packages and sell them to ignorant students and parents who like the glitz and flash.
We who are legitimate TKD instructors HATE THEM. They make us all look bad and lead to the gross generalizations seen in discussions like this. "All TKD sucks... All TKD practicioners are stupid... No TKDer can fight...", etc. This is not the case.
For years, I would not even acknowledge myself as a TKD practitioner among MA circles. I got sick and tired of the rolling eyes and sarcastic grins. Truth be told, I do consider myself much more of a Hapkidoist, and my school teaches Hapkido primarily. However, we also teach MARTIAL TKD, an I will not hide that fact anymore. I refuse to let the liars and thieves ruin MY reputation.
Go ahead non-believers and guffaw if you wish, but our goal is bring a little dignity and respect back to our little corner of the TKD world. We don't teach any Olympic stratagies or practices. I recently had a former student call me and thank me for never teaching "that sport-crap" to him after he was asked to referee an Olympic style tourney at his college by the local TKD club. Some of my current students, many just beginners, went to a recent Olympic style tourney and came back stunned at the folishness and poor combat technique shown.
I actively weed out those students that want or expect to buy-a-belt, or that only want to become tournement competitors. While I encourage competition (other then Olympic rules), my students understand that it is only the first level of experimentation with their skills outside of the dojang. If that's all they want to do and ignore the reality of martial arts and combat, they do not last long at my school.
Again let me state that most TKD schools are full of crap and do their students and the professional martial arts community a tremendous diservice. But, do not lump us all together. Some of us are fighting the good fight against overwhelming odds... a little support from the MA community would be helpful. Bashing us just makes our job harder and in the end, the McDojos still laugh all the way to the bank.
And just for the record BJJ-
At my school, we do kick below the belt.
We do kick with the shin and use knee strikes.
We don't play tag.
Not that you will either beleive me or that I give a rat's ass about your overinflated opinion... just stating the facts.
Posted On:11/29/2002 6:22pm
Style: JKD, BJJ
Actually, TaeKwonDoRob, I take more **** for being in JKD and being Paul Vunak's supporter than I ever took for being in TKD. I know exactly how you feel. The number of people who look at "Enter the Dragon" and say things like "Well, that was unrealistic" and assume JKD is all just that stuff drives me SPARE.
Also, does any one else in BJJ get this? You say you take "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu" and people come back with "Oh, Yeah -- Capoeria." I just want to put an armbar on them and ask if it looked like a dance move.
"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."
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