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  1. mcmillintkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2011 3:21pm


     Style: Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Chang Hon Tuls philosophical explanations

    I took this from a different forum. It is attributed to Master Gwen Hall's conversations with Gen. Ch

    "Notice the logical sequence.

    Chon-Ji denotes Heaven and Earth. Humans aspire to reach heaven and must begin their journey on Earth.
    Dan-Gun represented the beginning of a culture.
    Do-San represents the education of a people.

    This, so far we have moved form the creation of human history to the birth of a culture to the education of a culture.

    Won-Yo represents the introduction of spirituality.
    Yul-Gok--following the establishment of spirituality, we have the establishment of philosophy.
    Joon-Gun--every civilization gets conquered and has a hero emerge, and so this pattern represents the conquering of a civilization and the emergence of a hero toward freedom.
    Toi-Gye--once the culture re-emerges, changes are made the cultural philosophy to prevent subjugation.
    Wha-Rang--represents the the emergence of a military to protect the re-established culture.
    Choong-Moo represents victories in protecting the people."

    Has anyone ever heard of this before and does anyone have an explanation for the rest of the tuls?
  2. progressivetkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2011 5:45pm

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     Style: ITF TKD, some dabbling

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    That's really good! I don't think that's how the pioneers thought it through but it makes sense.

    I came up with this:

    For most people's 2nd degrees, they learn Po-Eun, Ge-Baek and Kwang Gae - poet/scholar, a general and king. As a black belt, you should become a scholar, a general and a king.

    Doesn't make sense but sounded good when I came up with it.
  3. progressivetkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2011 5:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: ITF TKD, some dabbling

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    1st-2nd degree

    (apologies AIMAA and others)
  4. WayOfLife is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2011 9:05pm


     Style: Taekwondo

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    Has anyone ever heard of this before and does anyone have an explanation for the rest of the tuls?Has anyone ever heard of this before and does anyone have an explanation for the rest of the tuls?
    I have heard that before, but like progressivetkd said, thats not really how the creators of tkd thought of them.
    You know the ATA forms are based on a growing plant though, I find that idea interesting. Are the WTF poomse based on any philosophical ideas? or are they just to demonstrate technique (which, at their simplest, is what chang hon style forms are for, right?).
  5. progressivetkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2011 4:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: ITF TKD, some dabbling

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    The first few WTF forms are named for symbols of the I-Ching (i.e. Taoist Chi diagrams of the sort that appear on the Korean flag).
  6. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2011 6:19pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Taoist Chi diagrams?!?

    No.

    No they are not.
  7. brihno360 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2011 7:51pm


     Style: Taekwondo, Judo, BJJ

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    According to the Official Taekwondo Training Manual written by Soon Man Lee and Gaetane Ricke PP. 50-51,

    The philosophical basis for The Taeguk forms is a universal symbol of harmony which is a yin-yang surrounded by 8 trigrams which represent the principle of 8 gwes.

    The word gwes is translated in the book as "eternity".

    The Palgwes are not clearly philosophically defined in the book, but the concept of Palgwe is supposed to be representative of man and the universe (P. 41).


    As far as ATA philosophy and the Pine tree according the the books and videos that ATA sells,
    You first need to understand that the style is called Songahm which means something like Pine tree and rock temple.

    The student's growth is therefore likened to a pine tree growing in a forest. Each form is supposed to be representative of the phases of not only the tree's growth but also of the the progress of a day as the tree passes through it.

    At first degree black belt the analogy changes somewhat, and has more to do with teaching others.

    The ATA forms are
    Songahm 1-5
    Songahm translates as The Pine Tree and Rock
    Then In-Wha 1 and 2
    In Wha means An Unbroken Glory
    The final color belts are Choong Jung 1 and 2
    Choong Jung means "All things Turn out perfect and beautiful"

    The there are several black belt forms:
    the first is Shim Jun which means begin planting seeds for the future.
    Last edited by brihno360; 11/02/2011 8:05pm at .
  8. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2011 10:30pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by brihno360 View Post
    According to the Official Taekwondo Training Manual written by Soon Man Lee and Gaetane Ricke PP. 50-51,

    The philosophical basis for The Taeguk forms is a universal symbol of harmony which is a yin-yang surrounded by 8 trigrams which represent the principle of 8 gwes.

    The word gwes is translated in the book as "eternity".

    The Palgwes are not clearly philosophically defined in the book, but the concept of Palgwe is supposed to be representative of man and the universe (P. 41).
    太極/태극/Taegeuk refers to the the swirled circle, which in Korean culture is divided into red and blue halves. It symbolizes the Supreme Ultimate, the two extremes. It only refers to the circle, not the circle surrounded by the 8 trigrams. The circle by itself is called the 太極圖/태극도/Taegeukdo, the Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate. In Mandarin, Taegeuk is pronounced Taiji, as in Taijiquan.

    The circle surrounded by the 8 trigrams is called the 八卦圖/팔괘도/Palgwaedo. Palgwaedo means the Diagram of the Eight Symbols. Gwae does not mean "eternity". The Eight Symbols are each three sets of lines, some solid, some separated. In keeping with the concept of Cheonji-in, the top line is Heaven, the second line in man, the third line is earth, because man is between the heavens and the earth. Palgwae is pronounced Bagua in Mandarin, as in Baguazhang.

    Quote Originally Posted by brihno360 View Post
    As far as ATA philosophy and the Pine tree according the the books and videos that ATA sells,
    You first need to understand that the style is called Songahm which means something like Pine tree and rock temple.
    松巖/송암/Songam means Pine Cliff. 菴/암/Am is the character for a Buddhist hermitage, not a temple, and is not the character used in the name of this style of Taegwondo. Comparisons to temples and or Buddhism are completely inaccurate.

    The usage of 松/송/Song is notable, since it traces directly back to Taegwondo's progenitor, Shotokan Karatedo. Shotokan is written 松濤館, which is written 송도관 in Hangul and pronounced Songdogwan in Korean. Shoto translates as Pine Wave. This helps illustrate the roots of Taegwondo in Shotokan Karatedo.

    The poetic image thus portrayed through these characters is that of a pine tree, growing a top of cliff face, a common site in the mountains of Korea.
  9. brihno360 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2011 8:14pm


     Style: Taekwondo, Judo, BJJ

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    Cool, thanks for the education. I admit I made a dummy mistake when I gave the translation for songahm. All our literature says it means pine tree and rock - temple is not mentioned as you point out.
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2011 10:39pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    No problem.
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