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  1. Bad Apple is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2011 7:53pm


    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    I would've choked him unconscious. I've had guys come after me after street fights before so I stopped giving them chances.

    I had that same philosophy in my misspent youth but I would NEVER recommend using chokes at all in anger. This vid will be my example from now on. Notice that the loser taps out with a hammerfist rather than an open palm. The winner very rightly lets go because this is a bright line between "just screwing around" and aggravated assault but the loser immediately gets up and attempts to re engage leading to a slow chase around the car

    This didn't look like a "friendly" fight to me especially the end. If you're at a TD or just screwing around with a buddy you can end the fight at the tap and that should do it. It's just young male dick waving gone full retard but hocking a lung cookie on your barely vanquished opponent sends a mixed message about the end of hostilities.

    Can we even call that a choke ? It looked more like The Iron Shiek's Camel Clutch from the ol' timey WWF. Whatever works I guess.

    This is why ending a street fight with a choke has a very small % of success. Choke too little and your opponent just gets back up at pretty much full capability and the fight continues. Choke too much and now you have truly crossed into t3h d34dly. I can't even recall any "Felony Fights" that end with a choke.

    For the life of me I cannot recall a single fist fight I ever got into being caused by something I would be comfortable explaining to a jury that justified killing a guy for. Ending with a choke outside a controlled environment is a big lose/lose AFAIK.

    "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" might look cool on a T shirt but will sound much worse spoken aloud in a court room.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2011 7:59pm

    staff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Apple View Post
    I had that same philosophy in my misspent youth but I would NEVER recommend using chokes at all in anger. This vid will be my example from now on. Notice that the loser taps out with a hammerfist rather than an open palm. The winner very rightly lets go because this is a bright line between "just screwing around" and aggravated assault but the loser immediately gets up and attempts to re engage leading to a slow chase around the car

    This didn't look like a "friendly" fight to me especially the end. If you're at a TD or just screwing around with a buddy you can end the fight at the tap and that should do it. It's just young male dick waving gone full retard but hocking a lung cookie on your barely vanquished opponent sends a mixed message about the end of hostilities.

    Can we even call that a choke ? It looked more like The Iron Shiek's Camel Clutch from the ol' timey WWF. Whatever works I guess.

    This is why ending a street fight with a choke has a very small % of success. Choke too little and your opponent just gets back up at pretty much full capability and the fight continues. Choke too much and now you have truly crossed into t3h d34dly. I can't even recall any "Felony Fights" that end with a choke.

    For the life of me I cannot recall a single fist fight I ever got into being caused by something I would be comfortable explaining to a jury that justified killing a guy for. Ending with a choke outside a controlled environment is a big lose/lose AFAIK.

    "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" might look cool on a T shirt but will sound much worse spoken aloud in a court room.
    I don't fight angry.
  3. CheeksWWAC is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 1:45am


    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Street MMA

    Ive choked a couple of people out in fights, the trick is getting out of dodge before they wake up.
  4. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 9:06am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeksWWAC View Post
    Ive choked a couple of people out in fights, the trick is drawing a dick on thir forehead before they wake up.
    Fixed.
  5. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 10:54am

    supporting member

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Apple View Post
    This is why ending a street fight with a choke has a very small % of success. Choke too little and your opponent just gets back up at pretty much full capability and the fight continues. Choke too much and now you have truly crossed into t3h d34dly. I can't even recall any "Felony Fights" that end with a choke.
    There's lots of effective techniques you don't see in Felony Fights, because those guys are usually awful fighters and their idea of a choke is probably a 2 handed pizza's-not-dinner choke. Also, it's usually obvious when a choke has knocked someone out, and at that point you can hold your control position but loosen the choke to confirm it before letting them go. To kill with a choke, you'd need to hold it on quite a good deal longer after they're unconscious.

    For the life of me I cannot recall a single fist fight I ever got into being caused by something I would be comfortable explaining to a jury that justified killing a guy for. Ending with a choke outside a controlled environment is a big lose/lose AFAIK.
    In a fight where nothing short of losing consciousness will stop someone, a choke is probably the safest way to make that happen. A knockout via strikes is a lot more dangerous, from damage from the strike itself, whiplash, and hitting the head on the ground.

    "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" might look cool on a T shirt but will sound much worse spoken aloud in a court room.
    I agree, and even someone that believed it would be an idiot to say that in court ("Its better to be judged by you twelve than carried by six").
  6. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 3:19pm

    supporting member

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Street MMA

    Ive choked a couple of people out in fights, the trick is getting out of dodge before they wake up.
    I prefer to stick around and shave their heads, Adrian Adonis style.
  7. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 3:36pm


    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Agreeing entirely with Permalost and adding some vague numbers: A good choke can render someone unconscious in less than 10 seconds. Opinions vary greatly on how long it takes to cause permanent brain injury or death. The lower end of the range seems to bottom out around a minute, and estimates of “1–5 minutes”, “1–6 minutes”, or “several minutes” appear to be typical for cerebral ischemia (=strangulation by cutting off blood supply to the brain, as opposed to asphyxiation where air supply is limited and oxygenation continues for much longer until the blood is deoxygenated). Thus, it seems reasonable to assume that unless you hold a choke on for at least a minute after someone goes unconscious, you’re vanishingly unlikely to cause any kind of permanent harm, and if you want to be sure of killing someone, you should hang on for at least 5–10 minutes (there are reports of hangings taking up to 15–20 minutes!). There’s a pretty wide margin between unconsciousness and serious risk of injury; hopefully it won’t take you an entire minute to realise that the guy’s already out!

    It seems to me that choking somebody unconscious, without continuing to murder-choke them to death for the next several minutes, is considerably less harmful than knocking them out (concussing them, having them crack their head on the pavement, &c.), or breaking their joints (which, well, breaks their joints).
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  8. Bad Apple is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 7:39pm


    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally Posted by CheeksWWAC
    Ive choked a couple of people out in fights, the trick is drawing a dick on their forehead before they wake up.


    Fixed.

    You must also warn them ahead of time that you are not a very good artist and often resort to tracing.

    For Permalost : Once upon a long time ago it was considered routine for police to use chokes on anyone not coming along quietly. "When in doubt choke 'em out". It became a big no no after a few sensationalized deaths and currently occupies the same level on the use of force continuim as a firearm. Mr Policeman is certainly not going to look kindly upon you if you go using it more casually than he does.

    Justifying the fight at all will be difficult enough, justifying a known lethal technique is a bridge too far.
  9. doofaloofa is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2011 3:06am

    supporting member

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I fucking hate poor loosers. Personally I am an excellent looser

    The fight would have been over a lot sooner if one of those guys did judo ;]
    Considered in the abstract the boxing ring is an altar of sorts, one of those legendary spaces where the laws of a nation are suspended: inside the ropes, during an officially regulated three-minute round, a man may be killed by his opponent's hands but he cannot be legally murdered. Boxing inhabits a sacred space predating civilization; or, to use D.H. Lawrence's phrase, before God was love. If it suggests a savage ceremony or a rite of atonement it also suggests the futility of such gestures. For what possible atonement is the fight waged if it must shortly be waged again... and again? The boxing match is the very image, the more terrifying for being so stylized, of mankind's collective aggression; its ongoing historical madness.
    Joyce Carol Oates, On Boxing
  10. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/08/2011 3:18am


    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Apple View Post
    Originally Posted by CheeksWWAC
    Ive choked a couple of people out in fights, the trick is drawing a dick on their forehead before they wake up.


    Fixed.

    You must also warn them ahead of time that you are not a very good artist and often resort to tracing.

    For Permalost : Once upon a long time ago it was considered routine for police to use chokes on anyone not coming along quietly. "When in doubt choke 'em out". It became a big no no after a few sensationalized deaths and currently occupies the same level on the use of force continuim as a firearm. Mr Policeman is certainly not going to look kindly upon you if you go using it more casually than he does.

    Justifying the fight at all will be difficult enough, justifying a known lethal technique is a bridge too far.
    I have heard anecdotaly that it the choke is coming back in favor again down here. Police do have a sort of yeah if you gotta rule. Of course it is now called a vascular restraint.

    On another note we had a bouncer in Mackay recently break a persons neck so it does have its risks.

    http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story...-manslaughter/
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 10/08/2011 3:22am at .
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