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  1. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 5:27pm


     Style: 'Grapplin'

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    So your standing on the subject is anything that has no sparring is not effective, right?

    I guess at this time maybe a better Aikido practitioner than me can convince you, is it just Aikido you have a problem with or is it everything else that is traditional? Aikijujutsu of most Ryu, Kenjutsu, Classical Jujutsu, Iaido...etc. (Most TMA have no sparring, correct me if I'm wrong about this though).

    Edit: My technique may be not good but I don't account for all Aikidoka. Maybe what I do doesn't work but once I get better...
    Most TMA do have sparring. Even if it is light contact, I sparred in Goju Ryu and Trad JJ.

    You can bring as many Aikidoka as you like to this debate, but until you can provide actual evidence, rather than conjecture, you'll never win anyone over.

    Dave has very intelligently explained how the principles and philosophy of Aikido can apply , but it does not mean the physical aspect works.

    Dont mistake me for a typical anti TMA troll, i've done just as many TMA as modern arts, I simply fail to see the evidence backing up this assertion that TMA's provide you with the same benefits as athletic, competetive combat arts.

    Call me a philistine, but Dave's lovely prose on Aikido, when stripped down to the bare bones of the message describes Judo just as much as it does Aikido. The difference being, Judo is practised and proven daily. Judo , like Aikido, looks impressive when practised on a partner within the rules of the art. Judo, is also devestating when practised on an uncooperative aggressor, it has been proven to be so. Aikido has not, will not, and no amount of conjecture can magic up the actual evidence that Aikidoka lack.
  2. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 5:38pm


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggernoob View Post
    Most TMA do have sparring. Even if it is light contact, I sparred in Goju Ryu and Trad JJ.

    You can bring as many Aikidoka as you like to this debate, but until you can provide actual evidence, rather than conjecture, you'll never win anyone over.

    Dave has very intelligently explained how the principles and philosophy of Aikido can apply , but it does not mean the physical aspect works.

    Dont mistake me for a typical anti TMA troll, i've done just as many TMA as modern arts, I simply fail to see the evidence backing up this assertion that TMA's provide you with the same benefits as athletic, competetive combat arts.

    Call me a philistine, but Dave's lovely prose on Aikido, when stripped down to the bare bones of the message describes Judo just as much as it does Aikido. The difference being, Judo is practised and proven daily. Judo , like Aikido, looks impressive when practised on a partner within the rules of the art. Judo, is also devestating when practised on an uncooperative aggressor, it has been proven to be so. Aikido has not, will not, and no amount of conjecture can magic up the actual evidence that Aikidoka lack.
    I never said TMA provide the same benefits as athletic modern arts. Judo has been much more physically demanding than Aikido that's why I like it, it makes me fitter and is awesome in it's own way.

    I'm not trying to bring any Aikidoka in the conversation to prove me right I'm just saying I admit my knowledge isn't sufficient enough to discuss these things now and I will do what is most of the time advocated on these forums, STFU and train.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 5:41pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    So your standing on the subject is anything that has no sparring is not effective, right?

    I guess at this time maybe a better Aikido practitioner than me can convince you, is it just Aikido you have a problem with or is it everything else that is traditional? Aikijujutsu of most Ryu, Kenjutsu, Classical Jujutsu, Iaido...etc. (Most TMA have no sparring, correct me if I'm wrong about this though).

    Edit: My technique may be not good but I don't account for all Aikidoka. Maybe what I do doesn't work but once I get better...
    Do not get into this argument. Just don't. No, most TMAs Do have sparring. Heck there are versions of Aikido as violent as Judo. Yes, you are wrong.

    Most crappy, bullshido and McDojo TMAs have no sparring.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 5:44pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, go read Rock Ape's comments on Aikido in other threads. The next thing you need to learn is "High Level" in most arts has a tendency to lead to asshatery. Yes, even "High Level" practitioners of alive arts have espoused stupidity.

    The difference is they normally don't get embarrassed when called out.
  5. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 5:46pm


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know what to say, mates. I've put 2 years of hard work into this.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Do not get into this argument. Just don't. No, most TMAs Do have sparring. Heck there are versions of Aikido as violent as Judo. Yes, you are wrong.

    Most crappy, bullshido and McDojo TMAs have no sparring.
    I know about Tomiki Aikido but that isn't available in my country and as for most TMA having sparring...I didn't know that. Sorry. All I know about other martial arts is what I've seen on youtube (I've watched a lot, I used to not sleep because I'm watching videos) and I understand it doesn't replace actual experience.

    But...There's nothing traditional besides Aikido and maybe Wing Chun and Tai Chi, where I live.
    Last edited by Mister; 10/04/2011 5:53pm at .
  6. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 6:02pm


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's also Bujinkan lol...
  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 6:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggernoob View Post
    If you've ever been hit in the eyes or throat, you'd know that your instinctive reaction is a tensing one. Aside from the fact that its distracting, it has no magic disabling power, so if anything striking someone would make them harder to move as they'd lock up and become dead weight.
    I sometimes train with an aikido 6th dan (among other things; he's the 1st guy on this list: http://d2911231.u77.securedc.com/?q=node/1 ) and one of the aikido aspects that he shares with us sometimes is the use of atemi when applying aikido. It's not focused on hitting the eyes or throat, but he's shown a lot of ways where a strike does make it easier to apply a technique, not harder. These were usually fairly light, specific strikes that he actually applies to the targets, just lightly.
  8. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 6:29pm


     Style: 'Grapplin'

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you really didnt want him to throw you, could he throw you?
  9. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 6:38pm

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     Style: 柔道

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggernoob View Post
    At approx 1:00 the Aikidoka breaks grips by giving his back up. Why?
    Is not an uncommon tactic to break grips/entangle uke's arms if he doesn't release the grips, but the guy in the clip Hedge posted does it in a very nonconventional way.

    Here are some examples of this move, notice how an uppercut is fired towards uke as first step:



    Same technique done fast:



    Another one:



    Of course, those are formal kata and should not be taken as realistic examples of self defense/combatives.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 6:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a video I came across a while back that features a high ranked Jap Aikidoka doing randori with a live and resisting, albeit incompetent opponent.

    I found it interesting, because its the only example I've seen of a legit Aikidoka doing randori with a live resisting opponent.



    Its pretty scrappy and not very inspiring of confidence, if that's the epitome of the system. However, it does show Aikido 'can work', but if given the choice, I think you'd want to opt for Judo, Thai boxing or wrestling if you wanted to learn to 'fight'.
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