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  1. Necroyunus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2011 11:22pm


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Need help and advice on an investigation...

    Hello dear bullies...

    Me and a couple of my friends are planning on an investigation about an instructor, which is located in Turkey.

    I'd understand if most of you bullies wouldn't give a **** about what's going on in Turkey MA world, but still I would greatly appreciate any help and suggestions.

    This is the situation:

    We came across the name of "Sevki Erdogan" in our local MA forum.

    He got all attention on himself when we discovered that:
    - He was giving "jiujitsu & MMA" seminars and "certificates"
    - He was asking his students to ONLY TRAIN MMA WITH HIM otherwise in the future they will have problems with mma competitions and "the federation"

    Well, thinking that we already have some MMA fighters fighting around the world and all, this "federation" "certificates" terms made us a little confused.

    So we checked his background in MA's.

    Here is what he says:

    - He has trained in and "examined" aikido, taekwondo, goju ryu karate, joined many seminars
    - American Full Contact System Karate PylsungDo 3. Dan
    - Super Sabaki Kaikan Do Organization 5.Dan
    - Ashihara Karate 5.Dan
    - Hapkido Universal Instructor (Whmaf)
    - 3. Dan Judo
    - 6. Dan Sayokan (Which is a ripoff system, based on ashihara, just using different names and uniforms)


    Here are his activities:
    - He teaches Krav Maga, gives seminars about it
    - He teaches Systema, gives seminars about it
    - He has "CREATED" a system named "PARS" which we think is very similar to Krav Maga
    - He and his students gives "Jiu-jitsu and MMA" seminars with certificates. They especially tell their students "other MMA clubs" are obsolete (which are run by professional mma fighters)


    We've tried to talk with the guy and asked some questions inside the forum.
    He got aggressive and said stuff like: "I'm sure I know MMA better than you!" when we asked him if he is really eligible to teach mma, give seminars and certificates.


    He has no MMA fights, no students who competes in MMA.


    Well is he full of ****? I don't want to talk so sure without making a good research about him, but even if all his dan claims are legit, I don't approve his way of working.
    (MMA certificates? really?)
    But for me, he sounds a little fishy.


    Why am I doing this research?

    MMA and BJJ are very new sports to Turkey, that are being tried to promote all around the country by people who put a lot of effort and money and sweat...These guys actually go and fight!

    And we have this guy coming out of nowhere, trying to create a federation of mma and capitalize the sport in the country.

    I don't want to let that happen. At least not before everyone knows about this guy.



    So here is how you can help me, if you feel slightly interested...

    1) You can tell me more about these sports "American Full Contact System Karate PylsungDo", "Super Sabaki Kaikan Do Organization" etc. and if they are legit sports or not. (By legit, i mean, they dont give certificates by coupons from magazines etc)

    2) You can also give me pointers about who to talk if I want to find out more about his credentials.
    Like ashihara, krav maga, systema...who should I contact with If I want to find out if he is really qualified to teach these?

    Also any other suggestions are welcome.

    Thanks!
  2. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2011 2:15am

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is this the guy in question?

    http://www.ashihara-ankara.tr.gg/Shi...23286%3BAN.htm

    Automatic English translation:

    http://translate.google.com/translat...ed=0CBwQ7gEwAA

    In regards to the credentials, always follow the lineage. Ask him who his teachers were that gave him his ranks and how long trained in that exact art before receiving said rank. If he has a hard time providing that info, that is an immediate red flag.

    The first art is probably "Pil Sung Do" which has several disconnected, unrelated schools (they aren't part of an association). Where has Mr Erdogan spent time? That may limit the search scope.

    Mr Erdogan has an entry on the following page:

    http://www.kapap.ws/page6.html




    That is where he received his Krav Maga "training". I use the word "training" lightly because KAPAP uses instructor courses and seminars to "train" people to become instructors. The requirements (80 hours) are not long enough to become proficient in anything (my opinion). Really, he would not have been required to have spent any significant amount of time as a *student* to become an instructor.

    I'm pretty sure KAPAP (http://www.kapap.ws/page7.html) and the WKMA (http://www.wkma.uk.com/) have been discussed on Bullshido before.

    Here is a copy of his self-written training history:

    (from http://aikidocba.hi5.com/friend/p936..._Erdogan--html, screenshot)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevki Erdogan
    - Dan Judo (examination date : 14.04.1996)
    - Dan Pylsung Do U.S.A Karate (examination date : 10.03.2002)
    - Dan Aikido(examination date : 21.04.2002)
    - San-6.San(Dan) Sayokan Turkish Martial Arts examination date : 15.01.2005 wsgf-15.12.208 Sayokan World Head Quarter)
    - Dan Super Sabaki Kaikan Do examination date :25.01.2005)
    - Hapkido İnternational İnsructor (examination date : 15.October.2008 M90-732)
    - Dan Ashihara Karate Kaikan (examination date : .Şubat.2009 )

    *Coaching Courses 21 march-12 april 1994
    *Coaching Seminars 1995-1996-1998-2000-2002-
    *Judo Region Referee (examination date:12.12.1998)
    *Judo instructor (examination date:18.03.2004)
    *Sayokan National Referee (examination date:29.06.2005)
    *Sayokan instructor (examination date:15.01.2005)
    *Board member of World Sayokan Headquarters since
    *World Sayokan Headquarter Trainer
    *Board member of Sayokan federation since 06.04.2005
    *Working as a general secretary of sayokan federation since 08.04.2005
    *Education comittee member of Sayokan federation since 09.05.2006/ 03.03.2006
    *Education comittee member of Sayokan federation since 05.08.2007
    *National Coach of Sayokan federation since 2007
    *Board member of World Sayokan federation since 28.05.2006
    *Working as a general secretary of World sayokan federation since 04.06.2006
    *Education comittee mebber of World Sayokan federation since 10.07.2006
    *World Cenk Art Headquarter Association Founder& President 15.01.2008-
    *Pars İnternational Tactical Defence Academy Founder& Head Master 01.07.2008
    *Technical comittee mebber of Defence sports Federation 14.12.2008
    *Vice president and Technical comittee president of Defence sports Federation 01.08.2009

    www.parstacticaldefence.tr.gg
    www.savunmasanati.com
    www.taktiksavunma.tr.gg
    www.parsantalya.tr.gg
    That's a lot to comb through.

    Again, ask him his training history and continue to do searches about him and collect as much public information as you can. That's when pieces begin to fall together.
    Last edited by Uncle Skippy; 9/30/2011 2:20am at .
  3. Necroyunus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2011 2:45am


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks bro! Yes this is the person.

    After the first public forum talk which he raged, he stopped paying attention to the forums.

    None of us contacted him privately yet.

    I really appreciate your pointers man, thanks!

    EDIT: A friend of mine pointed out that the art he is talking about is not pil sung do...i will share more info about it once i learn more
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2011 4:23am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok mate..

    If you're planning on a formal investigation, post all of your findings in this thread, including any evidence which you uncover through the course of your inquiries

    Here's a good example of a completed investigation having been written into our wiki encyclopedia : http://www.bullshido.org/Ralph_Severe

    Read it to get an idea of what you should be doing.

    Also email the instructor(s) and try to get them to participate in this thread. Pose whatever questions you have both here in the thread and perhaps in the email you send.

    Keep copies of all emails or correspondence, take screen caps of websites which might be making public claims. Those images should be posted in this thread.

    DO NOT MAKE ANY ACCUSATIONS YOU CANNOT PROVE

    There's plenty of people on this site who will help you with how to go about this investigation.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  5. Necroyunus is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 12:38am


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Ok mate..

    If you're planning on a formal investigation, post all of your findings in this thread, including any evidence which you uncover through the course of your inquiries

    Here's a good example of a completed investigation having been written into our wiki encyclopedia : http://www.bullshido.org/Ralph_Severe

    Read it to get an idea of what you should be doing.

    Also email the instructor(s) and try to get them to participate in this thread. Pose whatever questions you have both here in the thread and perhaps in the email you send.

    Keep copies of all emails or correspondence, take screen caps of websites which might be making public claims. Those images should be posted in this thread.

    DO NOT MAKE ANY ACCUSATIONS YOU CANNOT PROVE

    There's plenty of people on this site who will help you with how to go about this investigation.
    I apologize for replying a little late, I didn't have access to internet for some time

    However another friend working on the investigation made some progress

    Please understand that since the guy is basically Turkish and we want to be sure him and his students (and other people of the community) understands what is going on, we will mainly manage the investigation in a local forum site.

    But I will keep your pointers in mind and also will keep here updated about the progress.

    Thanks!
  6. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 2:30am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok thanks.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  7. searcher66071 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 3:55pm


     Style: Karate-knockdown, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Necroyunus- I will check his claims in Ashihara. He states he is with AKI and I know Hoosain Narker, so I will message him shortly.

    As far as Pylsung Do goes, the only thread I find on it is over on Martial Talk here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...e-(USSD)/page9 Go down to post #131.
  8. searcher66071 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 5:06pm


     Style: Karate-knockdown, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just heard back from Hoosain Narker and he is not with the AKI, but there is a possibility of him being under the guidance of Ferhat Ozsert, Hilmi Asal, or Sermet Ulufer. I have not checked with Mr. Ozsert, but I can. Sevki Erdogan is using the AKI logo on his website, but he is not an AKI affiliate.

    Ferhat Ozsert is the "Father" of Ashihara Karate in Turkey, so he will be the next point of contact.
  9. Necroyunus is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2011 1:48am


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Searcher66071 bro, thanks for your interest and help!

    Do you ever follow Turkish forums by any chance?

    Also, here is my friends summary about the investigation:

    ""Our effort has been focussed on information surrounding Şevki Erdoğan’s claims to degrees in two less known martial arts systems, namely PylsungDo (3rd dan) and Super Sabaki Kai Kan Do (5th dan).

    1. PylsungDo is a supposed system led by Keith Nesbitt Sr., a New York church minister. Nesbitt has been the president of the USA Sayokan Federation and the vice-president of the World Sayokan Federation whereas Erdoğan himself is an original student of Nihat Yiğit, the Sayokan founder, and had served as the secretary general of the Turkish Sayokan Federation. Nevertheless, PylsungDo is an obscure ‘system’ where even the identity of its founder is of certain curiosity. Nesbitt asserts that he was awarded his 10th dan in PylsungDo by Ted Vollrath while other persons involved point at Nesbitt as the founder.

    2. Super Sabaki Kai Kan Do is an Iranian full-contact karate system founded and led by the Rouhparvar family. We sent an English language e-mail to which Shihan Mohammadreza Rouhparvar had responded. Despite language barriers obvious in the correspondence, it was evident that Rouhparvar did not have any knowledge of Şevki Erdoğan and even thought that the message concerned an eponymous academician living in Hawaii. This was particularly surprising since Super Sabaki Kai Kan Do is known to have maintained a somewhat intimate relationship with Sayokan organisation.

    These are the initial data collected in our investigation. You may find further details (albeit in Turkish) and sources used in the links provided below.

    http://www.mucadelesporlari.com/show...Nesbitt-kimdir

    http://www.mucadelesporlari.com/showthread.php?183-Sevki-Erdogan-PARS-MMA%28-%29-ve-MANTIK-DISI-TEKELLESTIRME-CALISMALARI/page4""

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