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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2011 7:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by progressivetkd View Post
    Isn't that the logic that leads to Ashida Kim? Just joking. :)

    But seriously, that's kind of what I am saying. People should set themselves higher standards and have more respect for themselves. They hide behind belts like a get out of jail free card. It's like, I got this black belt way back so I am a credible martial artist - no, not true. Not if you spent the next six years doing nothing but sitting on your backside and eating doritos. I mean if the belt is a symbol of effort, what symbolizes those years?

    People say "Way of Life" and it means "Way of Life", not "Way of three years, then took a break". If you don't train, it isn't a "Way of Life" and you're not a martial artist (though all respect to you if you become one again).

    If you come back to train, great, welcome back but it will take you some time to get back to the level you were at when people felt you were good enough to get that grade - so the grade doesn't mean a whole lot.

    The funny thing is that in martial arts without belt systems, if you can't demonstrate and you can't coach, you really aren't anything. The other side of it is if the instructor tells you not to wear the belt, it's his school and his prerogative. He might not want his students to look up to someone of a low standard.

    There's a functional thing as well. Give me a black belt and I'll assume some things about him - like the fact that I can throw him on the ground quite hard during hosinsool that if I throw him to the side or the back that he'll breakfall and he won't mind if put pressure on his neck to throw knees or put a knee on his ribs when finishing. I'll assume he doesn't need many favors in sparring and that if I blitz him in the face straight off the bat he won't get disheartened. If this is all still true, then fine but if not, the belt isn't doing what Jigoro Kano meant it to do when he brought it in.

    (should clarify that this only counts for black belts from some schools - I don't assume all TKD black belts can break fall)
    Some people brag others laugh and you had a bad experience and have generalized the focus of your point. You are now addressing multiple different scenarios and generalizations.

    People pay respect to Black Belts that can no longer train or get on the mat. They pay respect to greats that just said I quit and moved on to something else. Hell, they respect dead Black Belts more than living ones. If they want to say "yes I'm a Black Belt" there is no problem for me at all in the proper context.
  2. hungryjoe is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2011 9:21pm

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     Style: judo hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't travel internationally much anymore, but when I did and knew enough ahead of time to work up a schedule, I'd pack a white and a black belt with a gi.

    Given, most of the time I'd find myself in an art for which I was not ranked. Still, I'd give a little background instead of just playing the noob.

    You'd be surprised at how accomodating most places would be if you weren't arrogant and expressed an interest in learning what they had to teach. They often times were as curious as to what you knew as to where you were from.

    Silly derail from main topic. ATA black belt < my 72yr mother's pistol or riding quirt.
  3. squidkicker is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 5:23pm

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     Style: goju

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I started goju I didn't wear my BB from TKD though they offered. Humble? That's what I tell the ladies, but the color of my belt can't tell you how much of that *** ima whoop. I could care less. My white belt is gray now anyway lol
  4. erezb is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 6:03pm


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it's cool having a black belt, but i guess it's also allot of pressure, i mean you can't get your ass kicked now from johny street punk right? What a shame :) lol.
    OP said that if you stopped training a few years ago you shouldn't be considered a black belt any longer due to your deteriorating performance and inability to perform certain techniques.
    Does this notion apply also to an elderly practitioner? or someone that sustained injuries and now can't perform as good as he used to?
    What about the opposite? if someone can kick your black belt ass using your own MA..is he entitled to your belt?
  5. progressivetkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 7:04pm

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     Style: ITF TKD, some dabbling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Definately does not apply to those retiring due to age/injuries, etc.

    Also, if you stop training in THAT martial art but you still train in others, I'm fine with that. You keep yourself in good shape and used to rough and tumble and are still adding to your skill set. I'm not overly concerned with the barriers between individual martial arts....and, yes, overtime what your best skills are may change. Maybe some of your skills are not as sharp but you have replaced them with others. As previous posters have said, in this case unless the assertion of rank is made in an inappropriate way, doesn't seem to be unfair. I'm more concerned with those that do nothing or assume the same grade without having trained.

    As for the "if someone kicks your ass...." question, no not really. Your belt is in whatever system you graded in. Just cause someone beats you, doesn't mean they know your system like you do. An example was the MMA match between Mario Neto and Stefan Struve that we had here in the UK. Struve submitted Neto but noone would suggest that Struve earned 3rd Degree BJJ through that match.
  6. hungryjoe is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 7:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    progressivetkd,

    If you don't mind, how old are you?

    Do you think you'll still be practicing martial arts in say, twenty to thirty years?

    Put it in perspective relative to your own age now.
  7. progressivetkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 8:07pm

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     Style: ITF TKD, some dabbling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am 26 and have been training for 12 years. Yes, I do hope to be practising martial arts in 20-30 years. I would never have done sports if not for martial arts and frankly it's a massive part of my life that allows me to be a person I never otherwise would have been.

    I see your point, but it's more like, if I was to stop training in a few years (entirely), I know that I would have to earn again what I have now. I started training for the first time at the same time as friends and family who were aged in their late forties, who set me a great example.

    TMAs (rightly or wrongly) are always encouraging you to train for life. That doesn't mean head high flexibility for life or amazing fitness for life or that you'll be able to do big sets of squats for life, but I'm not asking for that. I'm not at a pro fighter level of athleticism, never have been, and am not asking for that either.

    Also be be completely clear, when I say;
    Definately does not apply to those retiring due to age/injuries, etc.
    ....I mean that those who can't train or train regularly due to age/injuries are definitely right to consider themselves black belts for life. These guys earned their stripes and went as far as they could go physically. I'm often involved with non-practising taekwondo people who judge at competitions and assist at gradings.
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 10:50pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What makes them different from anyone else that EARNED THEIR STRIPES? You earned it, it's yours.
    That's like saying that someone that gets a PHD in math, but then retires and doesn't do any math for a decade, should give their PHD back.
    You're just an idiot...
  9. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 10:59pm


     Style: 'Grapplin'

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    What makes them different from anyone else that EARNED THEIR STRIPES? You earned it, it's yours.
    That's like saying that someone that gets a PHD in math, but then retires and doesn't do any math for a decade, should give their PHD back.
    You're just an idiot...
    Its just another semantic clusterfuck. If people didnt bounce around after 12 years of no training talking about their 1337 skills then there wouldnt be an issue.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2011 11:51pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by progressivetkd View Post
    I am 26 and have been training for 12 years. Yes, I do hope to be practising martial arts in 20-30 years. I would never have done sports if not for martial arts and frankly it's a massive part of my life that allows me to be a person I never otherwise would have been.

    I see your point, but it's more like, if I was to stop training in a few years (entirely), I know that I would have to earn again what I have now. I started training for the first time at the same time as friends and family who were aged in their late forties, who set me a great example.

    TMAs (rightly or wrongly) are always encouraging you to train for life. That doesn't mean head high flexibility for life or amazing fitness for life or that you'll be able to do big sets of squats for life, but I'm not asking for that. I'm not at a pro fighter level of athleticism, never have been, and am not asking for that either.

    Also be be completely clear, when I say;


    ....I mean that those who can't train or train regularly due to age/injuries are definitely right to consider themselves black belts for life. These guys earned their stripes and went as far as they could go physically. I'm often involved with non-practising taekwondo people who judge at competitions and assist at gradings.
    This is so wrong it makes my head hurt. You really don't see what you are doing do you?

    No, it isn't semantics at all.
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