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  1. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2011 3:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    BTW if anyone does have questions feel free to jump in, its not just about me and Ben having a chat.
    Absolutely, we use PM to write about what wankers you all are!
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. judoka_uk is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2011 7:20pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Absolutely, we use PM to write about what wankers you all are!
    Exactly, Sirc, you won't believe what Ben says about you behind your back!

    Some of it turns my monitor blue...
  3. Sorekara is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2011 8:09pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As an aside, I loathe this drill with an absolute passion.
    I think its literally the worst drill in Judo and whenever Iím at a club and end up doing it, every second of it I feel my blood pressure rising.

    I hate it for two main reasons:

    Basically no one ukeís for it properly. Instead of stepping forward and allowing themselves to have the weight brought onto their heels. They stomp the foot forward as if doing a Sumo shiko and as a result no one learns anything except how to waste everybodyís time.

    Its utterly useless for teaching beginners, because to try and avoid the Sumo stomp people try and rush to get the sweep in before ukeís clubbed foot becomes glued to the mat. They forget all about the hands, body positioning etc and concentrate solely on stepping back and sweeping as quickly as possible.

    So its a **** drill, please stop using it coaches. Unless you really, really, really hammer home to uke that it isnít a contest into who can stomp the mat the hardest and that theyíre actually supposed to help their partner out...

    I don't think it's so bad, although I agree it's frustrating. There hasn't been a single time where
    this drill didn't end up with me pissed off.

    Our foot work is taught a little different. It's more of a "hop" then sweep. The biggest problem I've seen is uke being held up by tori's lapel hand.

    How do you prevent that?
  4. adskibullus is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 1:26pm


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for another quality thread.

    Ive only ever been taught the hikidashi style of ko uchi gari and i agree i find the same problem where either subconsciously or not uke stomps there foot so the drill just becomes one big cluster f**k.

    Ill give the Tsugi ashi stepping version ago and see how i get on. When doing the Tsugi ashi version is it like your driving uke backwards and using your gari leg to reap their leg away before they can step back when all their weight is on that foot? Or reap their leg away when it has left the floor in more of a sweep with no weight on the foot?

    Ive always done the hikidashi style where your leg is sort of sweeping uke's leg before they put any weight on it sort of like de ashi barai.
  5. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 1:50pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorekara View Post
    I don't think it's so bad, although I agree it's frustrating. There hasn't been a single time where
    this drill didn't end up with me pissed off.

    Our foot work is taught a little different. It's more of a "hop" then sweep. The biggest problem I've seen is uke being held up by tori's lapel hand.

    How do you prevent that?
    Not sure what you mean by a "hop", plus, Kouchi GAri is a reap not a sweep,although the action can have similar effect as a sweep (barai).

    Tori holding uke up is a common mistake in a lot of ashi waza. The solution is to actually throw uke instead of doing uchikomi. The instructor has to show the proper coordination of hands and body and then it has to be drilled, preferably nagekomi.

    Which means uke has to have decent ukemi and be willing and unafraid to take a lot of falls. And that leads to another problem, that is the one of not enough time spent on ukemi.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 2:02pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Thanks for another quality thread.

    Ive only ever been taught the hikidashi style of ko uchi gari and i agree i find the same problem where either subconsciously or not uke stomps there foot so the drill just becomes one big cluster f**k.

    Ill give the Tsugi ashi stepping version ago and see how i get on. When doing the Tsugi ashi version is it like your driving uke backwards and using your gari leg to reap their leg away before they can step back when all their weight is on that foot? Or reap their leg away when it has left the floor in more of a sweep with no weight on the foot?

    Ive always done the hikidashi style where your leg is sort of sweeping uke's leg before they put any weight on it sort of like de ashi barai.
    As noted earlier, I tend to focus on teaching the hikidashi (drawing out) version because it goes along with the general progression I use.

    Regarding the problem with uke stomping, if you use a progression like this:

    1.) Uke and Tori practice stepping together. Usually you begin with them just learning to walk together in coordination (this is necessary for all judo).

    2.) Shorten it to a back and forth motion/tori pushes uke back and steps forward with left foot, uke withdraws right foot, resists, then steps forward again with the right foot.

    3.) Tori will have drilled solo his stepping/reaping action already (before all of this)

    4.) Uke and tori step together, and tori does his step/reap action to get the timing and rythm down.

    5.) Tori throws uke. Often, tori will accidentally throw uke at step 4.

    People who are really good at Kouchi Gari can just about throw uke without hitting their foot at all, especially in drills.

    The oikomi version (tsugi ashi) version can work either way. You can reap the foot with weight on it or catch the foot as weight transfers off. The latter often involves some hopping (ken ken) and I'll teach both to students who have the basics down solidly and have the coordination to hop and apply body weight in that situation (this takes a lot of coordination). Most basic is to reap the foot with weight on it.

    Always keep the basic triangle in mind when doing Kouchi Gari. You want to throw uke perpendicular to the line between his feet. The direction will vary if one foot is forward (migi or hidari shizentai), or both feet even (shizenhontai). It's a common mistake, so look out for it.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. Sorekara is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 3:27pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Not sure what you mean by a "hop", plus, Kouchi GAri is a reap not a sweep,although the action can have similar effect as a sweep (barai).

    Tori holding uke up is a common mistake in a lot of ashi waza. The solution is to actually throw uke instead of doing uchikomi. The instructor has to show the proper coordination of hands and body and then it has to be drilled, preferably nagekomi.

    Which means uke has to have decent ukemi and be willing and unafraid to take a lot of falls. And that leads to another problem, that is the one of not enough time spent on ukemi.
    This might be why I get so frustrated. We don't reap the leg. By "hop" I mean, a quick step back, open the hips, sweep the foot. Just like this video.

  8. judoka_uk is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2011 6:32pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Thanks for another quality thread.

    Ive only ever been taught the hikidashi style of ko uchi gari and i agree i find the same problem where either subconsciously or not uke stomps there foot so the drill just becomes one big cluster f**k.

    Ill give the Tsugi ashi stepping version ago and see how i get on. When doing the Tsugi ashi version is it like your driving uke backwards and using your gari leg to reap their leg away before they can step back when all their weight is on that foot? Or reap their leg away when it has left the floor in more of a sweep with no weight on the foot?

    Ive always done the hikidashi style where your leg is sort of sweeping uke's leg before they put any weight on it sort of like de ashi barai.
    Normally you weight the rear corner of the ankle:



    You can catch the foot as its coming forward, but its incredibly hard to do.

    The other day during nagekomi, I did a reverse tsugi ashi movement and the dynamic delay generated meant I caught uke's foot as it was coming forward. Didn't mean to and absolutely fucking buried him, we were both surprised, took uke a while to get his breath back, lucky he was a dan grade and instinctively tucked his chin in otherwise it would have been a Matsiev scenario.
  9. adskibullus is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2011 12:22pm


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Normally you weight the rear corner of the ankle:



    You can catch the foot as its coming forward, but its incredibly hard to do.

    Probally why im getting fustrated with ko uchi. Im trying to sweep the leg away while its coming forward as opposed to reaping a planted leg.

    I find with most ashiwaza i put too much emphasise on the foot/ leg action and not enough on the hand action which is really what makes the throw happen.
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/07/2011 12:12am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorekar, for some reason thee is no reply box in your post with the video.

    Anyway, that's the basic hikidashi version of Kouchi Gari. The back step is what your are calling a hop.

    As you get better and better, the back step get shorter and shorter. I call it a stomp not a hop, if I have to call it anything. Eventually the oikomi and hikidashi versions kind of blend into each other where you try to draw uke forward he resists to rear, and you do the throw with spectactular results.



    In that video tori fucks up and uke has to lift his foot a bit for the throw to go off.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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