Groin Strikes, eye gouges, and other maiming techniques in self defense

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 9:51am

I do have a few positions that I will tend to go straight for the deadly with.

Grabbed from behind. I will pretty much squirrel grip every time. Especially if I am being choked. It dosent cost me anything. I can still fight into side mount and as a general rule the guy lets go quick.

Being bitten. I nose gouge. I personally have not seen a more effective counter.

Being eye gouged I bend fingers back same thing just seems to get rid of it quick.

And I have front choked people but that is just a variation of collar and cuff.

But as Danno has said You need to have an overall strategy not just the deadly.

**danno** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 10:42am

Originally Posted by gregaquaman

Grabbed from behind. I will pretty much squirrel grip every time. Especially if I am being choked. It dosent cost me anything. I can still fight into side mount and as a general rule the guy lets go quick.

sounds ok from standing. you must be pretty careful not to let the choke sink in too far?

do you have trouble when people are wearing jeans or whatever? i get the impression that with some modern clothes it's easier to strike the groin than grab a handful.

you reminded me of this btw:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=688_1259911803

Originally Posted by gregaquaman

Being bitten. I nose gouge. I personally have not seen a more effective counter.

that's interesting, you never hear people talking about teh deadly nose gouge.

do you think an eye gouge might work as well or better? but i suppose you wouldn't go for that on the job because of the potential for injury.

**gregaquaman** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 11:26am

Originally Posted by danno

sounds ok from standing. you must be pretty careful not to let the choke sink in too far?

do you have trouble when people are wearing jeans or whatever? i get the impression that with some modern clothes it's easier to strike the groin than grab a handful..

You can keep one hand on the choking arm.

Ultimately I am trying to step my leg behind them and collapse the whole thing into a sort of side mount and then work from there. sort of a vingativa if you were a capo guy but I have seen variations of the throw in a lot of different styles.

So the grab works even if i catch pants or inner leg. Just the groin moves them faster. Striking is iffy because it has to make them let go or it dosent work.

Originally Posted by danno

you reminded me of this btw:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=688_1259911803

that's interesting, you never hear people talking about teh deadly nose gouge.

do you think an eye gouge might work as well or better? but i suppose you wouldn't go for that on the job because of the potential for injury.

I find the nose gouge really effective.

I have only been bitten for reals twice (And the nose gouge worked better) but i have played with this on a bit. The best way to test it I have found is to get somone to bite their own arm and see what gets them off quicker.(they dont have to bite hard to lock down their jaw) Finger in the eye takes a lot of pressure if the guy is ready for it. (And yes bad look for me)

Just quickly with the nose if have never had to stick my finger up the thing just sort of scrape it off their face.

**danharr** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 4:33pm

Great breakdown and analysis not only of testicle attacks but of peoples opinions about BJJ.

**RynoGreene** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 7:28pm

My brother trained in a bit of the deadly Chun while in college, and was completely convinced by his instructor that going "completely crazy", biting, gouging, nut shotting and scratching, you'd be able to negate any grappler's advantage. So after drinking a bit too much, I invited him to go crazy on me. (This was very stupid, but my brother really ticks me off when he's sober, let alone drinking.) We started from several common grappling positions, just to test his theory. (Guard bottom, in someone's guard, under mount, on mount, side control, etc.)

It was quite comical. Almost any time he could eye gouge me, I could also eye gouge him. He had never thought of this. He managed to scratch my eyelids enough that they scabbed later, (fucking annoying) while I was more gentle in my simulated gouges. Under mount was the only time he could get me without me getting him, but it allowed for a very easy bump escape with both of his hands occupied. In almost every position, eye gouging was a bad idea as it just presented arms for arm barring, or made for an easy sweep/escape due to poor base.

Nut shots are just annoying, he couldn't get anything clean in.

Biting was actually the most distracting. If he had side control on me, it was most definitely a concern. If someone has a decent side control, they could definitely nip you. From almost any other position, it's not big deal. Going for the bite from top mount upsets your base, once again, easy bump. Under side control > Shoulder cross face. Guard bottom > too far away. In guard > hip control limits it. North-South > I can bite you too mother fucker.

He did piss me off with the eyelid scratching, so I just started achilles locking the **** out of him. Ironically, he was a pretty good high school wrestler. If he would have just worried about wrestling instead of the deadly Chun gouge/nut/bite finish, I'm sure he would have done a hell of a lot better.

**danno** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 7:59pm

Originally Posted by gregaquaman

You can keep one hand on the choking arm.

Ultimately I am trying to step my leg behind them and collapse the whole thing into a sort of side mount and then work from there. sort of a vingativa if you were a capo guy but I have seen variations of the throw in a lot of different styles.

So the grab works even if i catch pants or inner leg. Just the groin moves them faster. Striking is iffy because it has to make them let go or it dosent work.

nice, so you're kinda doing this with a squirrel grip to help things along:

i really agree on the grab vs strike thing.

Originally Posted by gregaquaman

I find the nose gouge really effective.

I have only been bitten for reals twice (And the nose gouge worked better) but i have played with this on a bit. The best way to test it I have found is to get somone to bite their own arm and see what gets them off quicker.(they dont have to bite hard to lock down their jaw) Finger in the eye takes a lot of pressure if the guy is ready for it. (And yes bad look for me)

Just quickly with the nose if have never had to stick my finger up the thing just sort of scrape it off their face.

if someone bites me i'm going to try it.

**danno** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 8:08pm

Originally Posted by RynoGreene

Under mount was the only time he could get me without me getting him, but it allowed for a very easy bump escape with both of his hands occupied. In almost every position, eye gouging was a bad idea as it just presented arms for arm barring, or made for an easy sweep/escape due to poor base.

if you have a good mount and you can use a collar choke without getting reversed, you should be able to eye gouge from there pretty safely. you'll generally be doing it with one hand, not both. S-mount is good too.

thanks for sacrificing your bro in the name of science.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 9/29/2011 8:22pm

Originally Posted by RynoGreene

My brother trained in a bit of the deadly Chun while in college, and was completely convinced by his instructor that going "completely crazy", biting, gouging, nut shotting and scratching, you'd be able to negate any grappler's advantage. So after drinking a bit too much, I invited him to go crazy on me. (This was very stupid, but my brother really ticks me off when he's sober, let alone drinking.) We started from several common grappling positions, just to test his theory. (Guard bottom, in someone's guard, under mount, on mount, side control, etc.)

It was quite comical. Almost any time he could eye gouge me, I could also eye gouge him. He had never thought of this. He managed to scratch my eyelids enough that they scabbed later, (fucking annoying) while I was more gentle in my simulated gouges. Under mount was the only time he could get me without me getting him, but it allowed for a very easy bump escape with both of his hands occupied. In almost every position, eye gouging was a bad idea as it just presented arms for arm barring, or made for an easy sweep/escape due to poor base.

Nut shots are just annoying, he couldn't get anything clean in.

Biting was actually the most distracting. If he had side control on me, it was most definitely a concern. If someone has a decent side control, they could definitely nip you.

I ran into a guy I knew in highschool at the beach, and he had recently been in a barfight. He showed me the main damage-scabs on his fingers and under his arm on his torso, and a big swollen hand. Apparently he put this guy in a headlock and tipped over into a scarfhold. The guy tried to bite his way out so my friend started punching the hell out of his head (ballooning up his hand). Anyway, the biting didn't make him release his hold.