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  1. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 9:32am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    So the ninjato and the chokuto aren't the same? Thanks, learned something new.
    No they were not. The chokuto was an early sword and was both single and double edged inspired by Chinese designs.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 9:36am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman View Post
    Not particularly relevant, but I thought the costume currently associated with Ninjutsu as displayed by the Bujinkan may have originated with Bunraku theater, where the pupper manipulators were swathed in black similar to Kabuki... not that it matters in the long run.

    (not sure if they wore tabi though)

    I made a mistake I meant to say Bunraku not Noh. It was used in Kabuki too the stage hands because they would move the set in the background while actors were performing.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  3. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 9:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    I made a mistake I meant to say Bunraku not Noh. It was used in Kabuki too the stage hands because they would move the set in the background while actors were performing.
    Thanks a lot... my ego is now the size of Cleveland.
    It'll take weeks to go down.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
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    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 10:38am

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From about 2006-2008 I read most of Masaaki Hatsumi's books during a personal quest to find a new martial art. What I came away with was that while I liked the methodology and philosophy in the books, the martial arts looked very suspect. I have been a big MMA/UFC fan since UFC1, and I remembered there were "ninjutsu" fighters in the first few bare knuckle UFCs...so I wondered what the hell they had studied, and if it was "th3 r34l".

    I didn't want to thoroughly discount the Bujinkan, but it was my research into the Booj that led me to Bullshido in the first place....I remember Google searches from years ago leading me time and again to the site and some great threads.

    I came very close to studying BBT in Spring Lake NJ under Jack Hoban, a prominent Booj instructor (and a Marine). But....while I enjoy the "ninjutsu philosophy", I came to realize that it was largely an appropriated philosophy...namely, Sun Tzu's.

    Anyone who reads a decent translation of the The Art of War, and who has also read Hatsumi's works, can see that his idea of the ninja is essentially the model of the perfect special operations soldier using Sun Tzu principles. From the use of the elements (particularly fire), to the use of deception, subterfuge, secret messages, recon...it's all there in a text that predates even the Samurai by several centuries.

    So...if you TRULY like the "ninjerish" stuff associated with the ninja, you should try reading things like the Art of War or Musashi'slater Book of Five Rings. You will learn far more useful material from these two books than you could with ten years of jujutsu LARPING.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/23/2011 10:46am at .
  5. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 4:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It was used in Kabuki too the stage hands because they would move the set in the background while actors were performing.
    This is also the origin of the popular association of this outfit with ninjas. If a character was supposed to be attacked "out of thin air", one of the other actors would be disguised as a stagehand.

    Basically ninjas are theater kids.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  6. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 4:55pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    -snip-
    wrong forum.
  7. NeilG is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 5:42pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    The ninjato was the original form of the katana, but after the first attempt of the Mongolians to conquer Japan, they found out that this katana form broke easely against the swords used by the Mongolians, so the shape was adapted to become more curved.
    Since "ninja" were just Samurai and Yamabushi, the swords of the "ninja" changed when the swords of the Samurai changed.
    No, the ninja-to is complete fiction. The straight sword is the chokuto, which was straight and often double-edged. It eventually became curved and single-edged (not sure if the Mongolians are so directly responsible) and was called a tachi (among other things I'm sure, I'm not a sword historian). The tachi was basically a cavalry sword, worn edge down and slung on cords. Later on the katana appeared, worn edge-up and thrust through the belt. I have online acquaintances who are collectors and live in Japan and have been to all the museums, not once have they ever seen a "ninja-to" or anything like it. Here's such a testimonial from well-known polisher Keith Larman. As far as square tsuba, tsuba are an art form in themselves and come in all sorts of shapes.
    Last edited by NeilG; 9/23/2011 5:50pm at .
  8. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 5:50pm


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    No, the ninja-to is complete fiction. The straight sword is the chokuto, which was straight and often double-edged. It eventually became curved and single-edged (not sure if the Mongolians are so directly responsible) and was called a tachi (among other things I'm sure, I'm not a sword historian). The tachi was basically a cavalry sword, worn edge down and slung on cords. Later on the katana appeared, worn edge-up and thrust through the belt. I have online acquaintances who are collectors and live in Japan and have been to all the museums, not once have they ever seen a "ninja-to" or anything like it. As far as square tsuba, tsuba are an art form in themselves and come in all sorts of shapes.
    I think the difference between tachi and katana wasn't always that clear cut, but that seems the basic idea. What about the shorter (kodachi or wakizashi) or broken sword in a longer saya, is there indication of that existing historically? supposedly it gives a speed advantage when drawing.
  9. FinalLegion is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 5:57pm

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     Style: Shotokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks to all who have answered...I'm really picking up some good information. It seems that I won't be able to study "ninjutsu", or more accurately, taijutsu, as there really isn't anyone or any school that has the credibility to call what they teach taijutsu. I never imagined that the Bujinkan would be as full of Bullshido as it seems. If I'm getting the wrong impression, though...correct me because I don't want to get the wrong idea.
  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 6:03pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, they absolutely are full of it. You got exactly the right idea. The ideal they think they look to, translated into this century, would be military special forces...and they aint that.

    There are much less culty, far more effective arts/styles/sports for worthwhile martial studies.
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