Makiwara Training

**kdawgious** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 1:01pm

Having been training in Shotokan for the last 10 years, the makiwara has been a staple in my training at the dojo, but over the past couple of years the dojo has moved around and the makiwara hasn't been set up. I've moved on to using the heavy bag, a wave-master standing bag and when possible focus mitts. I miss the makiwara, but I've gotten the feeling that I derive more benefit from hitting the pads rather than the makiwara.

Do any of you guys see any practical reason to continue using a makiwara once it's set up, or would am I right in thinking the heavy bag is more beneficial to impact training?

I read on Rob Redmond's 24FightingChickens website that he thinks the makiwara has a poor feedback mechanism by which to judge ones punches. I'm just trying to get a consensus and see if my own observations have been correct.

**Fish Of Doom** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 2:48pm

the makiwara if used well is good for developing the isolated mechanics of the karate punch, specifically, while the heavy bag and pads are useful for developing applied punches in free-flow.

of course, that's if your only use for the makiwara is standing in front of it and throwing reverse punches. there are, of course, more ways to use it.

see this, for example:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufuJUdLqBok

**kdawgious** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 4:12pm

Originally Posted by Fish Of Doom

the makiwara if used well is good for developing the isolated mechanics of the karate punch, specifically, while the heavy bag and pads are useful for developing applied punches in free-flow.

of course, that's if your only use for the makiwara is standing in front of it and throwing reverse punches. there are, of course, more ways to use it.

see this, for example:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufuJUdLqBok

Great video, I've never seen that one. I do try to do a lot of different drills and such with the makiwara, similar to what I do on the heavy bag, but adapted for the stationary flat face of the makiwara, makes for an interesting workout.

I never put much stock in toughening up different parts of my fingers on the makiwara, though, a punch is a punch, and I'm going to use the same two knuckles for it each time (or at least attempt to do so), but I don't see myself ever intentionally attempting an ippon-ken when fighting.

As a side question, are there any specific drills you have found particularly useful when using the heavy bag?

**Marc Howes** · Posted On: 9/22/2011 6:20am

Osu! I love my makiwara! However, I see it a part of my training equipment, I also utilise the heavy bag, hook 'n jab and thai pads. I first started on the makiwara in 1973, so I will admit to there being a certain nostalgia to it. But I find it far better at giving me feedback on striking seiken than throwing rapid combinations (ok I'm old, so combinations as rapid as I can throw!) into a bag or pads. I find it keeps my wrists strong and yes, it does toughen up the skin over the knuckles, but that does not worry me. So my advice; for what it's worth, is to continue to use it as part of your personal training routine along with pads and bags.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 9/22/2011 8:48am

Okay, disclaimer to try and avoid shitstorm: personal opinion.

I've used one in conjunction with bag and pad training. Done properly, training with it does help to prepare the hands for any bareknuckle contact with a hard part of an attacker, such as a skull.

On the other hand, when possible, I've tended to prefer to nage an opponent so that his hard skull collides with the nearest planetary body rather than my knuckles, so I don't do the makiwara stuff as often as other karateka might.

**kdawgious** · Posted On: 9/22/2011 8:57am

@ Marc - The nostalgia is totally understandable, I've been using the makiwara almost since day 1 when I started training in Shotokan, and I felt it was an important part of training. So it's kind of a difficult decision whether or not to drop the practice entirely. On the one hand, yes, the makiwara does train the wrist and knuckles and such, but so does the heavy bag. I rarely ever use gloves or wraps when hitting the bag. The only time I do is if I'm going to do a seriously extensive and drawn out workout on it. Otherwise, bare knuckles all the way.

@ Vieux - Toughening the bones in the hand (ie. knuckles) seems like a more legitimate use of the makiwara more than strengthening my punches as a whole. I know that I'd rather not break my hand punching somebody in the face/head. On the other hand, I thoroughly agree with you on using nage, but there is something entirely satisfying about smashing somebody in the face when they deserve it.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 9/22/2011 1:54pm

Originally Posted by kdawgious

...there is something entirely satisfying about smashing somebody in the face when they deserve it.

One does hear that quite a bit.

Maybe I'm too long-in-the-tooth to remember any fondness for the relatively-rare instances of head-pounding that occurred in my workplaces.

All I can think of are the STD-saturated morons that frequent nightclubs such as the ones where I've worked, and the mere possibility of tearing a knuckle on a tooth of theirs as I break it...or anything like that which may result in contact--brief though it may be- between their disgusting subhuman fluids and my bloodstream.

Thanks, but I'll stick with head-spiking them into a curb as a last resort.

**kdawgious** · Posted On: 9/22/2011 9:41pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

All I can think of are the STD-saturated morons that frequent nightclubs such as the ones where I've worked, and the mere possibility of tearing a knuckle on a tooth of theirs as I break it...or anything like that which may result in contact--brief though it may be- between their disgusting subhuman fluids and my bloodstream.

So you've succeeded in mostly changing my opinion about hitting people in the face...I like your method, head spiking into the curb. On the other hand, I work and live in a fairly civil area where dangerous occurrences are few and far between. I think I'll just train for the same reason I started, I love to train.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 9:29am

Originally Posted by kdawgious

So you've succeeded in mostly changing my opinion about hitting people in the face...I like your method, head spiking into the curb.

As to the first, not really my intention. There may be times--thankfully rare, even in my line of work--when it's the lesser of all available evils.

As to head-spiking, again, I only mentioned such a measure as a very last resort, when all other avenues of resolution--from the verbal to the physical-but-less-harmful--have been exhausted. Either face-hitting or head-spiking would be something one had better be prepared to explain in court, if ever matters go that far.

On the other hand, I work and live in a fairly civil area where dangerous occurrences are few and far between. I think I'll just train for the same reason I started, I love to train.

Sounds like a plan. I try to help in making my workplace a fairly civil area where dangerous occurrences are few and far between. That's why I train.

Best wishes,

VN

**kdawgious** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 9:46am

My intent with my comment was to be facetious, I definitely want to come across as somebody looking to cause injury to anybody for any reason. With that in mind, naturally any physical contact is a last resort with varying degrees of contact, of course.

Back to my original question, though, is there any perceived benefit of utilizing a makiwara? Or am I getting greater benefit by hitting the pads and heavy bag?