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  1. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2011 10:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The unstoppable rise of the Black Belt

    The original idea came from an investigation where someone claimed a 5th Dan in MMA.

    How do you start with a text like this? I’m not a writer and trying to convey thoughts to paper is difficult, even if the paper is made up out of zeros and ones.
    So here it goes.

    To start with, I’m coming from a very different Martial Arts/Combat Sports landscape then most of the readers here, namely Belgium instead of the U.S. of A.

    Here in Belgium, (any type of) sport federations has to have an approval of the government before being eligible for subsidies, the reason why M.A. training is cheap compared to the U.S.
    As a counter payment the federations need to standardize certain aspects of the arts for which they are responsible. Such things are the curriculum of the art, the ranking method, the competition rule set and the additional teaching lessons (First Aid, teaching skills, etc…).
    The standardization of ranking methods has created a whole new load of Black Belts/Black Sashes/Black Ranks in arts that had previous none. This doesn’t mean that every black belt is equal to a black belt of another style, it just means that the minimum curriculum and the manner of executing the exams is now written down on paper and standardized for everyone within that federation, with the government as a watchdog.

    Some of the new “black belt” ranks are the Black Kahn and the Black Ring Level Rank for Muay Thai, Black Grade Rank for Wrestling (Greco-Roman and Freestyle) and a Black Belt in MMA., Black Sash in SanDa. These “black belt” ranks have only one level, once you are “black”, it stops.
    Some other arts have added higher degrees, like Savate which has Silver and Golden Glove ranking above the Yellow Glove rank (= equal to black belt). This comes from the French Government, which uses the same tactics as the Belgian one to have a form of quality control. The “new” Glove ranking exists beside the old ranks of Initiateur, Assistant-Moniteur, Moniteur and Professeur.

    Most new ranks follow the (European) Judo way: white, yellow, orange, green, blue, brown and black with competition required from green onwards.

    I hear you think “Is this a good progress in the M.A./C.S. world?” and well, I don’t know. It can be a good evolution that everything gets written down and controlled as a prevention against frauds or against favoritism in federations, but the government needs to keep an eye on it, so it will meddle with how federations and clubs run their business.
    This has as negative point that once something is written down, changing it will take some more time (bureaucracy).

    Would such a system work in the U.S.? Probably not, since Americans and Europeans have a complete different view on government involvement in daily life’s business.

    So if in 10 years from now I’ll claim besides my 1st Dan in Judo, a Black Khan in Muay Thai and a Black Belt in MMA, know that I’m not full of ****, but just an European ;-)
    (although some Americans think that’s the same).

    René “Zendokan” Gysenbergs
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  2. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2011 10:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have been involved with European MA culture a lot. I agree such a system would not work in the US. Plus even with government involvement this still doesn't stop Bullshido from going on in Europe.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  3. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2011 1:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Bullshido is different in nature. Since the government only accepts one federation for minimum one style as the official representative, it's easy to verify if a club belongs to an official federation or if a federation is the official representative.

    The BS tactics are
    a) create a new federation, but it takes only one phone call to know if your belt has value in that style.
    b) create a new style with also creating a supporting federation, but you need (under Belgian law) to proof your training and have minimum a black belt given by a recognized federation in one of the base arts of the new style, or the style and it's federation will not be recognized by the government
    c) "import" an art of a neighbouring country and make your students members of the federation of that country (or let them think that they are)
    d) create a style and federation in another country with lower standards and then "import" the art.

    With scenario a and b, it takes only one phone call to check if a style and/or federation is official, so getting bullshido'ed is sorry to say a sign of laziness/stupidity/naïvity, especially if it's a very known and widespread style.

    With scenario c, it takes only an email or phone call to find out if you are a member.

    With scenario d, it's more difficult, because each country has its own standards, so people have to take a chance with it. Sometimes it pays out, most of the time not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  4. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 2:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK, there's no discussion/opinion started following this text, which I find strange since it has some "controversal" statements in it. So I'll try one last time to kickstart it.

    - What do you think about government involvement as a control/quality factor in M.A./C.S. federations?

    - What do you think about "official" federations getting a seal of approval by the government and thus creating one federation as the ngb for minimum one style? How will this affect splintergroups?

    - And most important: How do you stand about "official" federations creating ranksystems in styles that had previous none?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  5. Moenstah is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 9:50am


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post

    - What do you think about government involvement as a control/quality factor in M.A./C.S. federations?
    a fallible one, but it's the only acceptable one in a civil society, where gong saus / deathmatches are unacceptable.

    - What do you think about "official" federations getting a seal of approval by the government and thus creating one federation as the ngb for minimum one style? How will this affect splintergroups?
    A disadvantage of the method described by you is that for kata tournaments, there has to be some standardized form of kata, something some traditionalists vehemently opppose, and I can see their point.

    My form of goju is linked as a whole organisation to the national governing body (karate bond nederland). As a consequence, my rank doesn't transfer. And I honestly don't give a ****. So whether it affects splinter groups / bullshidoists: only to a very limited extent.


    - And most important: How do you stand about "official" federations creating ranksystems in styles that had previous none?
    A nice example of bureaucratic thinking: 'martial arts, o yeah that has something to black belts, so they MUST have black belts'. Completely ignoring reality, not it's big news.

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