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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 11:16am

    supporting member
     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair enough. Fake is right I am incessantly long-winded.

    Anyone interested in reading the archaeological/historical record on Shaolin fighting history should seek out the following texts:

    • Primarily, The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion and the Chinese Martial Arts", (Honolulu: The University of Hawai'i Press, 2008.

    Prof. Shahar also coauthored these and though I don't speak Hebrew they have been translated in bits and pieces, particularly the HJAS article Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice.

    (from http://www.tau.ac.il/~mshahar/publications.html)

    • "Medicine, Religion, or Martial Art? - Qing Illustrations of Shaolin Hand Combat (Shaolin Quan)." Zhongyi yige keyi kandejian de lishi (Beijing: Renmin weisheng, 2007).


    • "Cheng Zongyou's Exposition of the Original Shaolin Staff Method," translation included in Victor Mair, ed., Reader of Traditional Chinese Culture, Honolulu: University of Hawai'i Press, 2005.


    • "The Evolution of Shaolin Hand Combat," in Shaolin gongfu wenji (Studies on the Shaolin Martial Arts), (Henan: Shaolin shuju, 2004).


    • "Religion, War, and Martial-Arts in China." Zmanim 85 (2004) (In Hebrew).


    • "Mingchao Shaolin xiwu kaozheng" ("Research into Ming-Period Shaolin Martial Practice"), Shaolin gongfu wenji (Studies on the Shaolin Martial Arts). (Henan: Shaolin shuju, 2003). (In Chinese).
    • "Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice," Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 61.2 (December 2001):359-413.


    • "Epigraphy, Buddhist Historiography, and Fighting Monks: The Case of the Shaolin Monastery," Asia Major 13.2 (2000).
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/22/2011 11:23am at .
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 11:16am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, Rabbit wants to do it again. You know how it goes in here with BS about Shaolin, Tai Chi, and the dreaded internal discussions.
  3. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 11:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, time fire up the old Illustrator, bust out some diagrams and go on another CMA fueled rant.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 11:22am

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys may be too used to arguing with past idiots about Shaolin.

    I not an average idiot. I am as interested in Shaolin from an anthropological perspective as much as a martial one so yes I do a lot of academic reading on the subject to supplement my training.

    If I were into Shaolin "bullshit" per se I doubt I'd hang out on Bullshido of all places, I'd go to MAP to have my delusions stroked.

    If anyone on the internet wants to discount the archaeological record linking Shaolin with China's martial history, that's your decision.
  5. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 11:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And just for the record, a significant number of styles claiming Shaolin lineage, had no real link to shaolin other than the instructor claiming the brand name for the sake of better marketing. (This began at the beginning of the Qing takeover, and lasted pretty much into the 1900s.)

    Unfortunately I don't have my reference material, but whatever translations by Tang Hao might be available, or Adam Hsu's many many articles should elucidate this point.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 11:26am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    W. Rabbit

    You guys may be too used to arguing with past idiots about Shaolin.

    I not an average idiot. I am as interested in Shaolin from an anthropological perspective as much as a martial one so yes I do a lot of academic reading on the subject to supplement my training.

    If I were into Shaolin "bullshit" per se I doubt I'd hang out on Bullshido of all places.
    Seriously, I see you still make things about your fucking intelligence. This is why I inititally said I would dump it in YMAS. Now create another fucking strawman and I'll put your **** in trollshido. Then you can rage again about how I am mean to you.

    We do academic research as well and only one of the three talking right now can actually read Chinese and it isn't me.
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 4:10pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had to dig around a bit but here is Zhang Kaiyin, a lay disciple (read: non-Buddhist) of the Song Shaolin temple. This is the 4th type that Ching/Shahar describe, someone who trained to fight at the temple but never took vows to be ordained. He took those skills into competition instead and has done really well.

    He defeated Lamsongkram Chuwatana, a famous royal Thai boxer at the 2009 Sino-Thai Boxing Competitions in Foshan, China.

    http://kungfu.chinese.cn/en/article/...tent_96653.htm



    Of course, show most people this video (and watch the terrible YT comments of course) and they'll claim he's not using "real kung fu" which is of course, bullshit.

    Still, this is a good example that people can and do still train hard in the Shaolin arts, enough that they can enter competition and win.

    Here he is winning by decision in 2010 vs John Wayne Parr, a world champion Australian kickboxer.


    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/22/2011 4:18pm at .
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 4:14pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude stop okay. You are now addressing some weird argument that is in your head.

    No one said Shaolin Arts can't compete.
    No one said that Shaolin had no connection to CMA history.

    Shaolin is debatable from jump which, has nothing to do with America. There is enough evidence out there to question the Daruma myth, the fighting monk myth, the martial myth, and having their own martial arts.
    Now, read that again and ask a fucking question if you do not understand what I meant.
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 4:24pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just trying to appease the OP's desire to see video of someone who actually trained at the temple AND fights in sanda/thai boxing tourneys.

    I am just being overeager as usual, mea culpa.

    I got a bit defensive-minded after reading a million "HE'S NOT SHAOLIN BECAUSE HE ACTED LIKE A DICKHEAD" and "IT'S NOT SHAOLIN, HE'S WRESTLING!" YT comments...yes, my own stupidity.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/22/2011 4:29pm at .
  10. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 4:31pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Duk gerk fei hok, baby, you flap the wings in your enemies face and he never sees the inside kick coming.
    You know, this detail that makes it kung fu also makes it different from the way Lyoto does it.

    Hey there is arsenic in apple juice, and there is Shaolin in Karate. What more can I say?
    You could say there's a big asterisk next to both of those things.
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