9/22/2011 11:16am, #11
Fair enough. Fake is right I am incessantly long-winded.
Anyone interested in reading the archaeological/historical record on Shaolin fighting history should seek out the following texts:
- Primarily, The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion and the Chinese Martial Arts", (Honolulu: The University of Hawai'i Press, 2008.
Prof. Shahar also coauthored these and though I don't speak Hebrew they have been translated in bits and pieces, particularly the HJAS article Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice.
- "Medicine, Religion, or Martial Art? - Qing Illustrations of Shaolin Hand Combat (Shaolin Quan)." Zhongyi yige keyi kandejian de lishi (Beijing: Renmin weisheng, 2007).
- "Cheng Zongyou's Exposition of the Original Shaolin Staff Method," translation included in Victor Mair, ed., Reader of Traditional Chinese Culture, Honolulu: University of Hawai'i Press, 2005.
- "The Evolution of Shaolin Hand Combat," in Shaolin gongfu wenji (Studies on the Shaolin Martial Arts), (Henan: Shaolin shuju, 2004).
- "Religion, War, and Martial-Arts in China." Zmanim 85 (2004) (In Hebrew).
- "Mingchao Shaolin xiwu kaozheng" ("Research into Ming-Period Shaolin Martial Practice"), Shaolin gongfu wenji (Studies on the Shaolin Martial Arts). (Henan: Shaolin shuju, 2003). (In Chinese).
- "Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice," Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 61.2 (December 2001):359-413.
- "Epigraphy, Buddhist Historiography, and Fighting Monks: The Case of the Shaolin Monastery," Asia Major 13.2 (2000).
Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/22/2011 11:23am at .
9/22/2011 11:16am, #12
No, Rabbit wants to do it again. You know how it goes in here with BS about Shaolin, Tai Chi, and the dreaded internal discussions.
9/22/2011 11:18am, #13
9/22/2011 11:22am, #14
You guys may be too used to arguing with past idiots about Shaolin.
I not an average idiot. I am as interested in Shaolin from an anthropological perspective as much as a martial one so yes I do a lot of academic reading on the subject to supplement my training.
If I were into Shaolin "bullshit" per se I doubt I'd hang out on Bullshido of all places, I'd go to MAP to have my delusions stroked.
If anyone on the internet wants to discount the archaeological record linking Shaolin with China's martial history, that's your decision.
9/22/2011 11:23am, #15
And just for the record, a significant number of styles claiming Shaolin lineage, had no real link to shaolin other than the instructor claiming the brand name for the sake of better marketing. (This began at the beginning of the Qing takeover, and lasted pretty much into the 1900s.)
Unfortunately I don't have my reference material, but whatever translations by Tang Hao might be available, or Adam Hsu's many many articles should elucidate this point.
9/22/2011 11:26am, #16
We do academic research as well and only one of the three talking right now can actually read Chinese and it isn't me.
9/22/2011 4:10pm, #17
I had to dig around a bit but here is Zhang Kaiyin, a lay disciple (read: non-Buddhist) of the Song Shaolin temple. This is the 4th type that Ching/Shahar describe, someone who trained to fight at the temple but never took vows to be ordained. He took those skills into competition instead and has done really well.
He defeated Lamsongkram Chuwatana, a famous royal Thai boxer at the 2009 Sino-Thai Boxing Competitions in Foshan, China.
Of course, show most people this video (and watch the terrible YT comments of course) and they'll claim he's not using "real kung fu" which is of course, bullshit.
Still, this is a good example that people can and do still train hard in the Shaolin arts, enough that they can enter competition and win.
Here he is winning by decision in 2010 vs John Wayne Parr, a world champion Australian kickboxer.
Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/22/2011 4:18pm at .
9/22/2011 4:14pm, #18
Dude stop okay. You are now addressing some weird argument that is in your head.
No one said Shaolin Arts can't compete.
No one said that Shaolin had no connection to CMA history.
Shaolin is debatable from jump which, has nothing to do with America. There is enough evidence out there to question the Daruma myth, the fighting monk myth, the martial myth, and having their own martial arts.
9/22/2011 4:24pm, #19
Just trying to appease the OP's desire to see video of someone who actually trained at the temple AND fights in sanda/thai boxing tourneys.
I am just being overeager as usual, mea culpa.
I got a bit defensive-minded after reading a million "HE'S NOT SHAOLIN BECAUSE HE ACTED LIKE A DICKHEAD" and "IT'S NOT SHAOLIN, HE'S WRESTLING!" YT comments...yes, my own stupidity.
Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/22/2011 4:29pm at .
9/22/2011 4:31pm, #20
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- San Diego
- street paddleboarding