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  1. bobyclumsyninja is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 2:29am

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chunner vs Thai Boxer in SanShou


    one of the top comments on the youtube post:
    I don't see Wing Chun. First: No stance. Second: No Wu-Sau. In Wing Chun, the taboo is hoping around like a boxer. That would upset the breathing & composure.
  2. berni29 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 7:32am


     Style: Wing Chun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi

    Lol, hopping round like a boxer upsets the breathing. Right. Like boxers do not breathe well.

    I did my first session of Muay Thai sparring today. Gentle stuff, just 3 rounds with a different guy each round and I can say that none of my Chun training helped at all apart from perhaps with balance and coming forwards. I did feel comfortable when in clinch distance though, but with gloves on hand techniques (apart from punching) are non starters. I need to sharpen up a lot.

    I think in more realistic situations the really close up stuff is where the Chun can be useful. The sensitivity training does help you feel how the other guy is moving. Chunners strike from where the hands are without pulling back so it can be quite quick when there is zero distance. Palm strikes, chops and the low kicks.

    If Chi Sau is being sold as anything other than a sensitivity exercise then that is wrong. Anyone who can fight is going to club you to death at the first opportunity. It is only one aspect of the Chun though. Perhaps the reason Chi Sau appeals is that it lets you "spar" with another person without it being as confrontational as other arts and sports. It can be done very gently or not. Again though any confusion with real fighting is dreaming.

    To a lesser extent any comparison between Muai Thai sparring and real fighting is also dreaming. The only thing like fighting is fighting and it is different each time. From what I can tell anyways. I have not had a fight since leaving school. As long as you are up for the pain then making it as real as possible has to be the way to go. For me ring related stuff is as far as I am likely to want to take it. Of course if someone wants to kick my head in then I am going to try and give back what I am being offered.

    I also did a BJJ class. Man is that tough. Talk about whole body exercise. I am going to try to find a way to fit that into my schedule. For me at 47 it is hard on the body. I did try a few lessons some years ago. Got an injury every class. This lot are much more technique based rather than just rolling around so I should fare better. I still really felt it in my joints though. Better look up a good Glucosamine supplement.

    All the best....Berni
  3. Mello is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 10:48am


     Style: Learning

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's encouraging
  4. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 11:21am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Love to know how at 47 you can be so delusional. Conceptual and astetic martial arts like most CMA and aikido have about 10% of their techniques that are useful outside of the dojo. While in contact arts like judo BJJ mauy Thai and boxing 90% of the techniques are useful any where.

    People are LAZY. They want to most out of the least. Consiquently judo's motto is maximum effecintcy with minimal effort. While this seems like a contradiction contact MA do not say or practice half ass and get half ass results. Hard work dedication some pain and a lot of sweat go into being a good MAist. The reason so many other MA are around is because someone decided they could do MA without getting beat up and got some results. If by chance the person was a good athlete then people believed that it was the system and not the man.

    There is a reason that BJJ practice was hard. It's because your not in good physical condition due to the half ass training you now do. How is it that a guy who does contact MA can go do other sports and not be sucking wind but any other athlete who comes do MA is riding after a minute? In the grand scheme of things which activity is better? The one that makes you "feel good" or the one that actually whips you're ass into shape and you feel really good after you're properly conditioned?
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. dwkfym is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 2:15pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure, fighting isnt exactly the same as ring fighting but it is about 9999 times closer to real fighting than wing chun is. Also I don't know how the **** you think wing chun will help you with the close up stuff. Have you ever heard of clinch fighting? Also, what makes you think chun quickness is worth anything? I'll almost let a chunner punch me bare fisted from zero distance as you speak of than a good boxer punch me with 18oz gloves. Actually, lets put it this way. I'll let you punch me in the head with your "zero distance" technique if you let me punch you at "zero distance" with gloves on. Or perhaps we can trade kicks?

    you guys are so fucking ignorant that it makes me wanna puke. What happened to all that empty the cup bullshit? You're neck up in your own steaming pile of **** that anything the other styles can teach you just ends up splattered all over the floor mixed in your ****. Meanwhile you keep shitting in your cup.
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  6. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 5:11pm


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    you guys are so fucking ignorant that it makes me wanna puke. What happened to all that empty the cup bullshit? You're neck up in your own steaming pile of **** that anything the other styles can teach you just ends up splattered all over the floor mixed in your ****. Meanwhile you keep shitting in your cup.
    My new sig. :-)


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 5:30pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwkfym View Post
    Sure, fighting isnt exactly the same as ring fighting but it is about 9999 times closer to real fighting than wing chun is. Also I don't know how the **** you think wing chun will help you with the close up stuff. Have you ever heard of clinch fighting? Also, what makes you think chun quickness is worth anything? I'll almost let a chunner punch me bare fisted from zero distance as you speak of than a good boxer punch me with 18oz gloves. Actually, lets put it this way. I'll let you punch me in the head with your "zero distance" technique if you let me punch you at "zero distance" with gloves on. Or perhaps we can trade kicks?

    you guys are so fucking ignorant that it makes me wanna puke. What happened to all that empty the cup bullshit? You're neck up in your own steaming pile of **** that anything the other styles can teach you just ends up splattered all over the floor mixed in your ****. Meanwhile you keep shitting in your cup.
    Hahahaha yeah that's what I get for dancing around the point.
  8. bobyclumsyninja is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 8:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by berni29 View Post
    I did my first session of Muay Thai sparring today. Gentle stuff, just 3 rounds with a different guy each round and I can say that none of my Chun training helped at all apart from perhaps with balance and coming forwards. I did feel comfortable when in clinch distance though, but with gloves on hand techniques (apart from punching) are non starters. I need to sharpen up a lot.
    Sounds like a good (albeit painful) time. I imagine you found that in that thai boxing/kick boxing there's a much higher premium on keeping your hands up, and close to your face.

    You'll have more success, if you remember a few basic things.


    • Bring your punches directly back to your temples, not dipping them at all, to prevent counterpunching.
    • bend your legs, sink your weight down.
    • When you punch, especially w/ gloves, turn the hip, keeping your weight sank down, to add power. Like in chun, don't telegraph.
    • If you're on the balls of your feet, with the back leg turned inward a little, with your weight evenly distributed (again dropping your weight by bending legs), you'll have a much easier time moving in various directions/arcs, and also putting power in your kicks. As you kick, turn on the ball of the foot, to engage the torque of the hips for power.
    • Possibly rather than aiming for the centerline, learn to use hooks, possibly setting them up with straight blows to draw the guard to the front. Feints, are a great way to set up shots.

    Most of all, keep it up. Avoid injuries as best as you can, and keep going. In terms of surviving a str33t fight, you're getting more benefit from MT, than WC.

    I agree WC is probably safer, but there is some risk involved in learning to fight, even in a relatively controlled environment. Each time I train, even considering injuries, I walk (or hobble) away in a much better position to deal with str33t violence.

    Bottom line: An injured Thai Boxer is likely safer from attacks, than a healthy chunner, short of the running away dynamic. I often hurt myself training, but the acquired skills I took away from that, have literally saved my health/life.
  9. berni29 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2011 10:02pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Noobs troll the chun

    Hi Guys

    Well, how can I be delusional at 47? That is easy. Look around you. How many times do you see people, friends, family walking paths that you know are either worthless, bad for them or are just going to end in tears or worse. Do they know? Maybe they do, but at what level? You say something, use logic, or try to get them off the road. People who have invested time, and money, in a course of action or behaviour over a long period do not easily change ways. It could be being in the wrong job or relationship. Not just martial art :). I have said to friends more than once in the past " you are not going to let go of this till it is beaten out of your hands are you?" I have done it myself. Sometimes (often) it is easier to let time and events take care of the issues for you. The relief you feel afterwards tells the truth.

    The realisation that WC is perhaps not what I thought it was (for me) has been dawning for some time. This thread and others I have read on this forum has helped to me reach the point where I now know that I must make a change. I am not turning my back on WC as such, but I am not in WC class this morning, and I will instead be signing up at a gym where they do the MT, BJJ and MMA. Actually I will be doing the MT elsewhere because I have started there already and I like the guys and set up. Both gyms have some pukka fighters and both are into competitions ranging from inter gym upwards.

    bobyclumsyninja, thanks for the advice. I will be taking it.

    Actually, just to give a bit more background I am living in HK away from my family at the moment (3.5 mts done, another 12 to go) so it is my training that stops me being bored and depressed so it is pretty important to me for that alone, quite apart from any "does it work" considerations. As it happens before I left the UK my daughters both took up some classes. My 12 year old does WC at my old school, and my 15 year old has taken up some modern fitness/boxing kicking class. (EDIT she actually took it up just after I left, I had wanted her to do the WC but she did not want to). I do not know anything about that particular one because I have not been back, but she skinned her knuckles the other night so it cannot be all bad.

    Happily the family are visiting me on the 18th for a month. I am going to take the girls and wife to the MT gym. I will get one of the guys to do a personal session first so they can get the basics and then they can join in the general classes. There are always a couple of tiny uncoordinated Asian girls there (as well as some bigger ones) so they will not feel intimidated as such I hope. The Thai guys are high energy nutters and love the girls so that makes it more fun all round. The sparring takes place either afterwards or when the ring is empty if you want to do it.

    I will have to see how the 12 year old feels about the MT. I would now prefer her and her friend (they have to do everything with at least one friend at that age) to do MT or at least kickboxing back in the UK rather than the WC. There is a gym in the local high street as luck would have it. It is just a matter of getting her up there. Maybe the wife can be persuaded as well. I have gone off topic a bit here.

    All the best, and thanks again,

    Berni
    Last edited by berni29; 7/16/2011 10:13pm at . Reason: Clarification
  10. berni29 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2011 9:39pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi

    By the way, I just wanted to say that if I was in the UK I would have no problem training at my old WC school and would still do so. They are very progressive and different from the WC schools here in HK (from what I have seen). I suspected that when I came to HK I would not be able to find anything similar and I was right. As for my 12 year old, it is too easy for her to chat with her friend while training, and I know that that is what she is doing. That is going to be a lot harder if she is doing MT/Boxing drills, tapping a bag and doing fitness stuff.

    Berni
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