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  1. scorchedearth is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:16am


     Style: muaythai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I got into an argument with a Hapkido guy yesterday

    I am a Muay Thai nutrider - this I will admit.

    However, when reading what was written to me, I nearly spit my food out on the screen.

    I left me with a bad taste in my mouth to say the least. The writing isn't perfect but I wasn't up for writing essays to illustrate my points to a guy who I figured out was a moron.

    Here are some samples of directly quoted text for your amusement (his spelling mistakes, not mine):

    me:
    compliant sparring?
    as in 'did you do compliant sparring?'

    self described Hapkido guru:
    my school didnt do sparring at all.
    hapkido isnt about sparring. that looses everything that it is about.
    me:
    then you aren't learning to fight, imo
    self described Hapkido guru:
    unless you have gone through it for a year or two that opinion isnt valid.
    we learned plenty about real fighting and real scenarios. not tournament bullshit.
    we learned how to quick stop a fight. one move fight over, attacker dead.
    hapkido is deadly. its not about points or wins. it is about surviving.

    black belts are subjected to 8-12 attackers at the same time.
    So we see the ridiculous arguments rearing their head already. This is beginning to get ugly.

    me:
    one move fight enders are low percentage moves. anything that claims to be too deadly for the ring is bullshit. i've seen masters of ninjitsu get schooled by amateur kickboxers

    if you don't fight against a fully resisting opponent, then you aren't learning how to fight

    self described Hapkido guru
    our school didnt teach compliant training.
    sounds like you heard a bad thing from the weak schools.

    and the moves are dynamic,.
    you resist one way the move changes. its fluid.
    The first thing he said that made sense was in the first sentence but then it degenerated into Bullshido again.

    me
    there are plenty of bad schools

    any school that doesn't spar is reinforcing delusions of ability on the part of its students.

    in the end, if you don't fight someone who is really trying to resist what you are doing to them, then how can you say you know how to fight?

    self described Hapkido guru
    hapkido is not about fighting. at all.
    this is where you are delusional.
    it is about defensive tactics.
    you fight , i end it.
    there is no fight involved.
    you resist my throw i move to something else.
    you can not and will not resist an arm bar or a broken arm.
    i have trained in hapkido for over 10 years. 100% of the time it has come through.
    the rest of the above message was a quote from wikipedia about Hapkido 'not being about fighting' and some other related nonsense.

    I do not have the background or experience that a fair amount of other members here do but this is turning into the standard 'teh d43dly' argument and the hapkido guy is convinced of his absolute invincibility.

    me
    if its not about fighting, then it doesn't make you a fighter.

    if you only learn defensive tactics, then you're missing half the picture.

    if you went up against someone who knew how to fight properly, you would never end the fight that easily.

    i can guarantee you that you would never beat a decent muay thai fighter with fancy moves and other crap

    for ground work, jiu jitsu would work better because of the training methods employed.
    self described Hapkido guru
    Beaten EVERY single Maui Thai boxer i have come across. break their arm and they submit. break their nose and they cant see. strike their jugular and they cant breathe.

    and why would i need to attack. i let them attack which dictates what i do. that is more than the full picture.

    and to say i need to go up against someone who can fight properly.
    suggesting maybe someone i have not fought with before?

    maybe Joyce Gracie?

    yes he rules the ground. but he is in LA. I am in Toronto
    So he now brings up arbitrary scenarios that are easily defused by his fancy defensive moves without ever acknowledging that he gets hit hard, stunned, or anything of the sort.

    Also, the only person who can beat him is Royce.

    me
    i never referred to royce directly

    BJJ in general is the best ground fighting art because it trains alive and because the techniques are simple and effective. if you don't train alive, then nothing you do will prepare you for the real thing. alive meaning: a fully resisting opponent who wants to hurt you as bad as you do them.

    i don't buy that strike the jugular bullshit because it is a low percentage maneouvre. what happens if you miss? you're open to a clinch and then some knees.

    and an armbar isn't as easy as 'how do armbar.' you have to have an advantageous position to be able to execute it well./
    Now, we can see it all go completely to ****:

    self described Hapkido guru
    ok man.
    let's get one thing straight.
    i have trained with royce and would train again when can get the chance. but since that is a long drive it isnt going to happen soon. ground fighting i have down pat.

    second. i dont train for the ring. period. i train to kill. if someone is attacking me they are going to die. plain and simple. they can fight all they want. i will just wait for them to make their mistake and they die.

    third. i dont train with wimps. you cant go breaking arms on white belts. that is why around blue and green the resistance builds up. dare you to resist against a black belt in hapkido.

    fourth. hapkido is based on the water principle. every force applied has an equal reaction. laws of physics. there are not tricks. in hapkido it is very simple. joint lock. arm break. game over.

    so until you train under hapkido for about 4 years your opinions are only based on what have heard.
    No acknowledgement of how to get to the armbar aside from 'I'll armbar you and you will submit.' It is painfully clear now that this person is full of **** and his claims of being a great ground fighter are questionable.

    me:
    you don't have to train with royce to go to a good bjj school

    if you can't do it in the ring, it can't be done outside it. a kick in the head is as effective (if not more) as a kick in the balls and they don't allow ball shots in the ring

    i'm not suggesting breaking arms. BJJ trains with full resistance and you don't see arm breaks all the time. if you can't try your techniques on someone who is fully resisting you, then your tricks mean nothing in real situation.
    self described Hapkido guru
    you are right if you cant kill in the ring it cant be done in real life.
    what the **** ?
    are you serious ?

    dude i have been in martial arts for 25 plus years. from what you talk you have far less.

    i have been in many a few fights that were life and death and i am still alive. if it wasnt for my training in hapkido i would be dead. they dont teach you stabs in the back in maui thai.

    the ring has rules. the street does not.
    my experience says that what ever happens in the ring is useless in real life.
    period.
    Thus ends the argument. I ended it by telling him that we would never agree and from what I had seen, all the people who claimed to be too deadly for the ring were quickly despatched by capable fighters.

    I also told him that I would not change my point of view until shown otherwise.

    I hope he isn't representative of Hapkido in general because this got ridiculous.
  2. cooper_543 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:34am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I took combat hapkido for about a year until I found a BJJ school (which has since closed) alot closer to my house. Alot of what this guy says sounds like what my instructor said (HKD too d34dly for ring, "water" principles, physics, etc.). For the most part we would spend an hour and a half doing partner complient drills and occasionally "suprise" eachother with half-speed punches. However, my instructor had fought kyokushin for 10 years or so as his first martial art, so every so often he would get bored and let us beat on eachother. As cool of a guy as my instructor was, he definately had what seemed to be a weird insecurity any time me or my brother would mention bjj or mma, which this guy seems to reflect. But there seems to be some cool and reasonable hkd guys on this forum, so who knows?
  3. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah yeah blah blah people with bad ideas exist.

    You keep feeding him straight lines, he keeps firing back with bullshit. So what? Want a medal? Are you going to go fight him to offer a disproof? Or is this just for Internet handjobs? "Oooh, you told that guy whatfor! *fwap fwap fwap*

    Enjoy it, squirt.
    Last edited by Rivington; 2/15/2008 10:40am at .
  4. scorchedearth is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:40am


     Style: muaythai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington
    Yeah yeah blah blah people with bad ideas exist.

    You keep feeding him straight lines, he keeps firing back with bullshit. So what? Want a medal? Are you going to go fight him to offer a disproof? Or is this just for Internet handjobs. "Oooh, you told that guy whatfor, fwap fwap fwap."
    My last message was an offer to spar next time I visit Toronto. I am waiting for a response.
  5. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:44am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He's so much like my hapkido friend it's untrue. It's like since they know throat strikes, eye jabs and nut kicks exist and that they've drilled them slowly a few times that they can make short work of anyone with them. Also, they seem to think that despite them almost never being applied in any MMA competition that standing joint locks are easy as pie, and also think that nobody who does hapkido has ever been in, much less been beaten in a MMA fight.
  6. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:44am

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by scorchedearth
    My last message was an offer to spar next time I visit Toronto. I am waiting for a response.
    Okay, this thread may be worth reading then, thanks! :)
  7. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:48am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington
    Yeah yeah blah blah people with bad ideas exist.

    You keep feeding him straight lines, he keeps firing back with bullshit. So what? Want a medal? Are you going to go fight him to offer a disproof? Or is this just for Internet handjobs? "Oooh, you told that guy whatfor! *fwap fwap fwap*

    Enjoy it, squirt.
    STHU. Frankly, hapkidokas and JJJers (who don't spar and crosstrain in BJJ) are as bad as chunners. Hapkidokas especialy seem to think that they are more deadly than ted bundy, and despite never testing their skills that they would kill and maim anyone in a fight, law be damned. I'm suprised hapkidokas don't catch as much flak as chunners around here, their beleif in TEH DEADLY is just as bad. I really don't blame the OP for venting, they're fuckin vexing.

    Ah, just noticed the sparring thing and your new post. Fair enough, not a huge amount of offence meant.
  8. RobT is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:50am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why don't you just ask him;

    i- how many people has he killed
    ii- how many arms has he broken

    ?
  9. partyboy is offline
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    ^ the answer to life

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:53am


     Style: bjj/(not enough)MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington
    *fwap fwap fwap*

    Enjoy it, squirt.
    please don't use these phrases one after the other...


    and OP, good luck on getting the guy to spar. make sure you viddy it if you do
  10. leec123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:53am


     Style: MT,full contact JJ,Sudoku

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by scorchedearth
    My last message was an offer to spar next time I visit Toronto. I am waiting for a response.
    possibility that you got trolled there fella
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