Uchi mata

[judoka_uk]

This was one of the things that confused me when I read books on Judo or looked at videos. There were two ways of diong it and I was confused as hell. I like the "Leggy " way myself but I will try both to see what works the best for me.

You'll find in randori that 'leggy' comes more naturally and in a BJJ context the 'leggy' version is much more likely to allow you to control the transition to the ground and not end up in half guard or rolling over uke and ending up in side control.

Achieving the 'hippy' version and then controlling it during the transition is really hard and in a BJJ context, unless you're streets ahead of your opponent in tachiwaza then you're unlikely to successfully transition and land in a dominant position on the ground.

[BKR]

I'm not sure they were demanding as yours were, at least not explicitly. I think there was an unstated implicit understanding that 'this was where they came from, there is a certain level you need to step up to and if you don't we will think you have no penis' so people like me, who felt that we needed to demonstrate we we were 'men' had to step up.

That's pretty much my story as well. I was given a choice to commit to serious training, actually I was invited to do so. If I had said no, I would have still been at the club(s) training, but would not have been pushed nor had any higher expectations placed upon me.

Once I accepted, as melodramatic as it seems, then I was tested then continually pushed to the limits of my abilities and beyond. The deal was, if I refused to go on, or quit in a practice (unless I was unconscious or too injured to go on), then I was done.

As you say, it really helps you know your place in the world. I always, when I see the thread started by the 'hopeful' world champ or 'future' olympian I just roll my eyes and think, son, you've never been exposed to real Judo otherwise you would know you're having a wank fantasy.

Yes, I remember that there were a few guys who came into the dojo, who were already doing Judo, that asked to be trained as I was being trained after watching and seeing the results I was getting. Not one of them lasted more than a single 2 hours training session.

It's hard for a beginner or novice who has never been outside his/her area, especially if they have no exposure to higher level Judo, to understand just how bad they are, and how hard it is to get even reasonably good at Judo.

Even with how hard and seriously I trained, the first time I fought a guy in the next weigh class up (I was -65 kg, he was -71kg) who was national level (a Cuban no less!)I got destroyed, literally destroyed, and I had beat several black belts by ippon(I had just got my shodan) at the same tournament. I was totally helpless against him, he gripped me, paralyzed me literally, threw me for a wazari and pinned me. I then could not move, even more than wriggle a little bit. This was in the "grand champion" division.

I've not competed on your level, but having just sniffed around the edges of the elite I know that I wouldn't make it at that level.

Just to make it clear, I ATTEMPTED to compete at a higher level, I did compete, but I was not succesful. I don't want anyone thinking I was an elite athlete in the USA. I placed 3rd at one Ladder Tournament (first was required for roster points), and I won one match at the US Open out of th 2-3 times I competed. At other ladder tournaments (these were entry level elite events, E Level now in the US), I won a few matches but never placed. I never placed at US Nationals, and only remember winning one match.

I did win a couple of Texas state championships, and a couple of Texas Collegiate state championships.

I have placed from 5th to 2nd place in my age/weight bracket at US Nationals in the Masters Division, and I did have yudansha competition in those.

Just to be clear.

[BKR]

Well yes, but it's rarely said explicitly because "everyone knows" that. Except, course, beginners. It actually came up in the context of o goshi and from there an explanation of how it works in other throws and how the "hip" uchi mata and o goshi are related.

LOL, well, yes, but, if a coach is not having beginners lower their weight upon entry, then, maybe they should nto be instructing!

BTW, if I start sounding like Tripp, please, please, let me know. It's so easy to sound patronizing and not mean to.

[BKR]

You'll find in randori that 'leggy' comes more naturally and in a BJJ context the 'leggy' version is much more likely to allow you to control the transition to the ground and not end up in half guard or rolling over uke and ending up in side control.

Achieving the 'hippy' version and then controlling it during the transition is really hard and in a BJJ context, unless you're streets ahead of your opponent in tachiwaza then you're unlikely to successfully transition and land in a dominant position on the ground.

Especially given the bent or wrestling postures common in the standing phase of a BJJ match, the leg version is more likely to work.

[Res Judicata]

LOL, well, yes, but, if a coach is not having beginners lower their weight upon entry, then, maybe they should nto be instructing!

BTW, if I start sounding like Tripp, please, please, let me know. It's so easy to sound patronizing and not mean to.

Fair enough, but while the lowering is quite obvious in o goshi, the ankle/knee bend in single leg throws like uchi mata is not so obvious--especially when you're on the shorter side like me and invariably do the leg uchi mata. It'd be more obvious without gi pants.

[BKR]

Fair enough, but while the lowering is quite obvious in o goshi, the ankle/knee bend in single leg throws like uchi mata is not so obvious--especially when you're on the shorter side like me and invariably do the leg uchi mata. It'd be more obvious without gi pants.

Good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.

I'm short (5'7"), and I invariably do the hip type Uchi Mata, or something in between depending on the circumstances.

[Dr. Sleepless]

Oh definitely don't acknowledge my post.

[RynoGreene]

Just a word of warning about the Ken Ken version with more of a downward drive. Really do your best to get your opponent turned over before he hits, as you have a lot less space to do it as opposed to the lifting/reap version. And make sure that your training partners can fall. Really well. It's really easy to accidentally pile drive someone face-first using this version if you **** it up and/or they don't fall well.

When I was first starting, I knocked out a training partner (another semi-newb) by fucking this one up a bit in conjunction with him taking a less than perfect fall. This was just doing some easy uchikomi. Some time later I was playing with a very experienced wrestler and hit him with it in Randori, he tried to bail out, and ended up landing head/shoulder first, slightly injuring his shoulder. I felt quite bad about both incidents, and it was completely unintentional that they got face-planted.

There simply isn't much time for adjustments when you're driving them downward so be cautious and courteous with your training partners.

On separate note (although now slightly non-judo), the leggy Uchimata to ankle-pick is a money takedown.

[judoka_uk]

Hmm, given that Ken ken Uchi mata is one of the most widely performed techniques, seen in dojo across the world day in day out. It hardly warrants being placed amongst the truly dangerous techniques such as Tani otoshi, Ura nage etc...

However, of course, when pride is placed before ukemi injury is possible. I think its unfair to single out Ken ken Uchi mata for any special mention in the injury stakes.

As the common theme throughout your post is you 'fucking this one up' and your partners 'taking a less than perfect fall' or trying to 'bail out'.

The problem lies with you not applying the technique safely and your partners not looking after themselves by taking ukemi, rather than with the technique itself.

[BKR]

If you are driving them downward no wonder. The throwing motion is circular.

That said, it can be a very hard fall when done correctly, because the kake can happen very suddenly and tori can basically start falling with uke unexpectedly.