Fencing?

**Christopher Umb** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:01pm

Getting to this topic late 'cause I just joined...
I had done 7 years of sport epee and then simply lived off of it for my next 10 years in the SCA/Ren scene with only an occasional lesson from some of M. Crown's students. Once I got bored with being the top SCA teacher in my area, I started classical/historical with M. Martinez. I've learned a hell of a lot there, but my old sport epee skills still translate. They certainly translate back through small sword as well. Rapier is a slightly different beast, but it's more of a matter of doing less. An epee can do everything a rapier can, but not the reverse.

**Petter** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:19pm

Originally Posted by Christopher Umb

I've learned a hell of a lot there, but my old sport epee skills still translate. They certainly translate back through small sword as well. Rapier is a slightly different beast, but it's more of a matter of doing less. An epee can do everything a rapier can, but not the reverse.

I’ve never done sport fencing, but I notice that when sport fencers start to pick up the rapier, they do a lot of things right but tend to make all the motions much too large, disengages in particular: The rapier’s a much heavier weapon and motions need to be as small as possible in order to be fast enough. So do less, and when doing the same things, minimise the motions.

**Lanky279** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:22pm

Originally Posted by Christopher Umb

An epee can do everything a rapier can, but not the reverse.

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought a epee couldn't cut as a rapier did? Or am I mistaking rapier for a sabre?

**Petter** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:25pm

Originally Posted by Lanky279

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought a epee couldn't cut as a rapier did? Or am I mistaking rapier for a sabre?

Rapiers can definitely cut, although they’re not great at it. Cut a chunk of meat with a rapier and a percussive cut will pretty much bounce off (though I imagine it would leave one hell of a bruise on a person); a draw cut will slice.

Lots of the old rapier manuscripts include a great deal of cutting. It’s de-emphasised, though, because cutting motions tend to be slower and wider and because the strength of the rapier is in thrusting. It’s basically one long point, after all.

**Christopher Umb** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:47pm

Originally Posted by Petter

So do less, and when doing the same things, minimise the motions.

Exactly - anything you can do, I can do less of.

**Christopher Umb** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:50pm

As for cutting, I agree with Petter. You can even stop a cut by thrusting against it. If you study saber, you'll find it's far faster and rapier cuts will seem slow to your perception.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 2:59pm

one thing to remember about fencing for exercise: it will not develop muscles evenly.

one big thigh, one big calf, one big forearm.

that is all.

**Christopher Umb** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 3:24pm

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

one thing to remember about fencing for exercise: it will not develop muscles evenly.

one big thigh, one big calf, one big forearm.

that is all.

So very very true and I started off with scoliosis even before I started fencing. You have to pair it with some full body workout

**JKDChick** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 5:20pm

I was a ranked sabre fencer in Canada for a while in the 90's. Mostly due to the dearth of women in the category.

I found it fucked up and is still fucking up my Kali footwork

**Christopher Umb** · Posted On: 10/28/2011 5:30pm

I can see how that would happen. Sport sabre had gotten fairly crappy by he 90's. Had the fleche been ruled out by then and replaced with the flunge? Back when Bakbakan was still in NJ I was able to win in dagger and espada y daga, but I'd worked with M. Martinez and M. Loriega by then.