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  1. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2011 4:16pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's time to check in with Robert E. Howard himself about how he envisions Conan:


    Butter on a hot skillet? You know what would go great with that?



    That's right: wild blueberries.

    Yum.


    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

  2. Re4 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2011 2:19am


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    haven't seen it yet but this has happened before, filmmakers try to remake a successful classic, attempting to make it more faithful to the literary source material. Here they are trying to one-up the collective work of Oliver Stone, John Milius, Schwarzenegger and James Earl Jones. Mako gets honorable mention.

    In other words if the source material is not brought to life with the hands of masters like those above, then who cares about the source material. The "WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?" scene may or may not be original, i doubt it. Most likely a coked up oliver stone just made up the whole thing, but there are some awesome badass lines in the original, i doubt anyone will be quoting the new one.
  3. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2011 4:06pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Re4 View Post
    haven't seen it yet but this has happened before, filmmakers try to remake a successful classic, attempting to make it more faithful to the literary source material. Here they are trying to one-up the collective work of Oliver Stone, John Milius, Schwarzenegger and James Earl Jones. Mako gets honorable mention.

    In other words if the source material is not brought to life with the hands of masters like those above, then who cares about the source material. The "WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?" scene may or may not be original, i doubt it. Most likely a coked up oliver stone just made up the whole thing, but there are some awesome badass lines in the original, i doubt anyone will be quoting the new one.
    The "what is best in life" scene was a collaboration between Stone and Milius based on a quote from Genghis Khan. It was not in the source material, nor was it entirely original to either the writer or director -- coked up or not.

    I keep hearing the new one is an attempt to be more faithful to the original. Uh... "more faithful" is a relative term. Slapping a place card with a Hyborian Age name on the screen is arguably more faithful to the setting, namechecking a couple of Howard stories, using one or two direct Conan quotes completely out of the original context... this isn't being faithful in the same sense that Peter Jackson was faithful to the LOTR source material.

    And that's what Conan needs, a Peter Jackson or Christopher Nolan to take the reins of a movie reboot.

    But that's not likely... [sad face.]


    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2011 6:22pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    ... this isn't being faithful in the same sense that Peter Jackson was faithful to the LOTR source material.
    Jackson changed soooo many things. But one has to, in an adaptation.

    I am one of the biggest Tolkien fanboys you'll meet and I got over it.

    Personally, I thought what I read of the Conan books were bleeech....crap.

    The movie Conan (original) is by far the most memorable version because of the great writing, and of course the score.

    Just like the Jackson version of LOTR didn't sink because the writing was good, and the CGI sold it.

    Tolkien's writings, of course, form the bedrock of the entire genre. I just personally think of Howard as a cheap knock off. The Stone/Milnius work took something that was dime store and made it epic, with help from St. Basil.

    Let us praise Brasil..

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 8/24/2011 6:31pm at .
  5. Soldiermedic is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2011 6:26pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Jackson changes soooo many things. But one has to, in an adaptation.

    Trust me I am one of the biggest Tolkien fanboys you'll meet and I got over it.

    The original Conan stories are bleech.
    There were very few changes, additions and omissions that Jackson did that overtly upset me(at least, when it did upset me, I could see his point...I really couldn't fathom Tom Bombadil on the big screen) but I have a lot of reservations about The Hobbit when I heard about the new character "Tauriel".
  6. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/25/2011 9:39pm


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sean Hood, one of the Conan script writers, on experiencing a flop:

    When you work "above the line" on a movie (writer, director, actor, producer, etc.) watching it flop at the box office is devastating. I had such an experience during the opening weekend of Conan the Barbarian 3D.

    A movie's opening day is analogous to a political election night. Although I've never worked in politics, I remember having similar feelings of disappointment and disillusionment when my candidate lost a presidential bid, so I imagine that working as a speechwriter or a fundraiser for the losing campaign would feel about the same as working on an unsuccessful film.

    One joins a movie production, the same way one might join a campaign, years before the actual release/election, and in the beginning one is filled with hope, enthusiasm and belief. I joined the Conan team, having loved the character in comic books and the stories of Robert E. Howard, filled with the same kind of raw energy and drive that one needs in politics.

    Any film production, like a long grueling campaign over months and years, is filled with crisis, compromise, exhaustion, conflict, elation, and blind faith that if one just works harder, the results will turn out all right in the end. During that process whatever anger, frustration, or disagreement you have with the candidate/film you keep to yourself. Privately you may oppose various decisions, strategies, or compromises; you may learn things about the candidate that cloud your resolve and shake your confidence, but you soldier on, committed to the end. You rationalize it along the way by imagining that the struggle will be worth it when the candidate wins.

    A few months before release, "tracking numbers" play the role in movies that polls play in politics. It's easy to get caught up in this excitement, like a college volunteer handing out fliers for Howard Dean. (Months before Conan was released many close to the production believed it would open like last year's The Expendables.) As the release date approaches and the the tracking numbers start to fall, you start adjusting expectations, but always with a kind of desperate optimism. "I don't believe the polls," say the smiling candidates.

    You hope that advertising and word of mouth will improve the numbers, and even as the numbers get tighter and the omens get darker, you keep telling yourself that things will turn around, that your guy will surprise the experts and pollsters. You stay optimistic. You begin selectively ignoring bad news and highlighting the good. You make the best of it. You believe.

    In the days before the release, you get all sorts of enthusiastic congratulations from friends and family. Everyone seems to believe it will go well, and everyone has something positive to say, so you allow yourself to get swept up in it.

    You tell yourself to just enjoy the process. That whether you succeed or fail, win or lose, it will be fine. You pretend to be Zen. You adopt detachment, and ironic humor, while secretly praying for a miracle.

    The Friday night of the release is like the Tuesday night of an election. "Exit polls"are taken of people leaving the theater, and estimated box office numbers start leaking out in the afternoon, like early ballot returns. You are glued to your computer, clicking wildly over websites, chatting nonstop with peers, and calling anyone and everyone to find out what they've heard. Have any numbers come back yet? That's when your stomach starts to drop.

    By about 9 PM its clear when your "candidate" has lost by a startlingly wide margin, more than you or even the most pessimistic political observers could have predicted. With a movie its much the same: trade magazines like Variety and Hollywood Reporter call the weekend winners and losers based on projections. That's when the reality of the loss sinks in, and you don't sleep the rest of the night.

    For the next couple of days, you walk in a daze, and your friends and family offer kind words, but mostly avoid the subject. Since you had planned (ardently believed, despite it all) that success would propel you to new appointments and opportunities, you find yourself at a loss about what to do next. It can all seem very grim.

    You make light of it, of course. You joke and shrug. But the blow to your ego and reputation can't be brushed off. Reviewers, even when they were positive, mocked Conan The Barbarian for its lack of story, lack of characterization, and lack of wit. This doesn't speak well of the screenwriting - and any filmmaker who tells you s/he "doesn't read reviews" just doesn't want to admit how much they sting.

    Unfortunately, the work I do as a script doctor is hard to defend if the movie flops. I know that those who have read my Conan shooting script agree that much of the work I did on story and character never made it to screen. I myself know that given the difficulties of rewriting a script in the middle of production, I did work that I can be proud of. But its still much like doing great work on a losing campaign. All anyone in the general public knows, all anyone in the industry remembers, is the flop. A loss is a loss.

    But one thought this morning has lightened my mood:

    My father is a retired trumpet player. I remember, when I was a boy, watching him spend months preparing for an audition with a famous philharmonic. Trumpet positions in major orchestras only become available once every few years. Hundreds of world class players will fly in to try out for these positions from all over the world. I remember my dad coming home from this competition, one that he desperately wanted to win, one that he desperately needed to win because work was so hard to come by. Out of hundreds of candidates and days of auditions and callbacks, my father came in....second.

    It was devastating for him. He looked completely numb. To come that close and lose tore out his heart. But the next morning, at 6:00 AM, the same way he had done every morning since the age of 12, he did his mouthpiece drills. He did his warm ups. He practiced his usual routines, the same ones he tells his students they need to play every single day. He didn't take the morning off. He just went on. He was and is a trumpet player and that's what trumpet players do, come success or failure.

    Less than a year later, he went on to win a position with the Los Angeles Philharmonic, where he played for three decades. Good thing he kept practicing.

    So with my father's example in mind, here I sit, coffee cup steaming in its mug and dog asleep at my feet, starting my work for the day, revising yet another script, working out yet another pitch, thinking of the future (the next project, the next election) because I'm a screenwriter, and that's just what screenwriters do.

    In the words of Ed Wood, "My next one will be BETTER!"
    As the judoka around here know, "Knocked down seven times, get up eight."


    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

  7. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2011 3:18am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wow, fantastic article. here's an update:
    http://www.deadline.com/2011/08/cona...he-box-office/
    “Actually my words “I made vast improvements on the draft that came before me” weren’t very classy because it does sound like I’m throwing the previous writers under the bus, and I need to publicly apologize to Thomas Dean Donnelly, Joshua Oppenheimer, and Andrew Lobel. All I can say is that I didn’t mean it that way and I should have chosen my words more carefully.

    What I meant to say that I was proud of the work I did solving problems that that had emerged in the development process, over many years and dozens of drafts. To suggest that I did better work than the writers before me would be both un-classy and flat out incorrect.

    Many people have read Thomas Dean Donnelly and Joshua Oppenheimer’s early drafts of Conan when it showed up on the internet, and a great, great number of them think theirs was the best draft of any, including the shooting script. Andrew Lobel’s draft was filled with great humor, which some critics thought the movie lacked.

    I didn’t write this to point fingers. As the last writer on the project, the criticism of the story, dialogue, and characterization should fall primarily on me… not my peers, not producers, not studio executives, not the director.”
    Very classy and quite generous of him. although, if the first draft of the script really was the best, i'm definitely willing to point fingers at the execs and producers.
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  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2011 9:42am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow...Conan news!

    Stan Lee is suing....says he owns 100% of the rights to "Conan the Barbarian"...he wants to hear their lamentation as they hand over the (terrible) box office proceeds.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/Movi...tml?&hpt=hp_c2
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2011 10:44am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  10. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2011 11:56am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Then again, it was arguably the Marvel comic book run from 1970 that reignited public interest in the character, so this might be interesting...
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