230550 Bullies, 3801 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 13 of 13
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Sorekara is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    479

    Posted On:
    11/04/2011 6:26pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The more I read of you posts the more thankful I am that I train where I do. Alot of what you say is actually taught at my school. Damn great job putting it to words.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,619

    Posted On:
    11/04/2011 7:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    Revisiting this: JUK's comments to 'forget about kuzushi' may be a concept that all judoka should consider
    Lol, good to see that 3 months later you've come to fully appreciate my wisdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    I'm not saying JUK's right.
    Don't worry it goes without saying, I am always right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    'Needs more kuzushi' is a phrase often thrown about, but if we consider kuzushi in the way I reccomend above, that is far too vague a statement. What specifically needs improvement? 'Kuzushi' is not itself an adequate answer to this question. One must address the specific factor(s) impeding the success of the throw. If student A has a weak hikite and student B has feet in the wrong place, and we (the instructor) correct these mistakes, we can say in conventional judo parlance "I helped them improve their kuzushi". But clearly we did two seperate things.
    Although you're broadly on message with my initial post, which is good.

    I think your examples are a little off, because they take the idea too far.

    Yes tai sabaki and tsukuri are indivisible from kuzushi, but to say that correcting an error in tai sabaki or tsukuri is correcting an error in kuzushi or imporving kuzushi. Is going too far.

    What I wanted to get across to people is to not firewall the three parts - kuzushi, tsukuri, kake. That isn't to say that instead of firewalling them I wanted people to chuck them all together in a blender.

    Its a bit more complex than that and perhaps beyond my Judo ability to explain, right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    In this way kuzushi becomes an unquantifiable concept. And when one gets into the unquantifiable, it's all too easy to retreat into mysticism.
    I find it helpful to separate out the nebulous term 'kuzushi' from the physical action of off balancing by refering to 'kuzushi' and 'kuzushi action'.

    Here is an example of a 'kuzushi action'



    However it itself is not 'kuzushi' in the respect that not all kuzushi is achieved through that 'kuzushi action' nor is all kuzushi as explicit or pronounced as that.

    So one of my pet peeves on Judoforum is the kata bunnies commenting on a video of a throw in competition and saying 'oh but there was no kuzushi.

    What they mean is there was no pronounced and obvious 'kuzushi action'.

    Its madness to think an elite Judoka could throw another elite Judoka without actually breaking his balance.

    Just because the 'kuzushi action' wasn't pronounced and obvious doesn't mean that kuzushi has taken place.

    Does that make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    Now I might get flack for this because this might go against something Kano wrote. But I find such orthodoxy pathetic, like Vatican theologists who've never experienced a moment of true spirituality in their lives.** Kano was an innovator, a punk kid who shook up the jujutsu world and applied scientific reasoning to the formerly esoteric. To treat his words as gospel is profoundly disrespectful to his memory.
    Running a bit into the history here, but its difficult to describe the son of an wealthy man who taught at and later ran the aristocrat's school in Tokyo and was firmly embedded in the Japanese establishment a 'punk kid'.

    But of course as with any historical figure people will project back their weltanschaung onto him. Hell some people read the words 'Judo is a method of moral and physical education' and come away thinking 'Judo is a martial art', 'Judo is a sport', 'Judo is a self defence system'.

    Tricky thing history, as I'm sure you can appreciate... Die Tradition aller toten Geschlechter lastet wie ein Alp auf dem Gehirne der Lebenden.
  3. Krijgsman is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    590

    Posted On:
    11/23/2011 12:16am


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I appreciate this. I can always tell when my kuzushi sucks... but same goes for the rest of the elements of my throws, and when all parts are done correctly the throw always feels best and works best. I am thankful for instructors that make sure we are doing all parts of the throw correctly.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.