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  1. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 3:58pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Keeping your pistol vertical is not a "school of thought". It's the basic use of a tool as it was intended to be used.
    I have to disagree mate and the reason has to do with the fact a pistol will function perfectly well regardless of its angle. You are right of course, the pistol is a tool and the user should use it to it's fullest capability.

    The operator's skill in it's use however is a different subject.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  2. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 5:29pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    I have to disagree mate and the reason has to do with the fact a pistol will function perfectly well regardless of its angle. You are right of course, the pistol is a tool and the user should use it to it's fullest capability.

    The operator's skill in it's use however is a different subject.
    Yup. While engineers may have designed weapons to eject/feed in a specific orientation I think that that is a separate issue from what the "best" way to operate it is from a fighting standpoint. Military history is chock full of examples of soldiers deploying their equipment in unconventional methods that gave them a tactical advantage.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  3. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2011 6:16pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Just to keep the topic going. Couldn't it also be argued that the handgun was designed to be fired one handed? Many Point Shooting advocates advise single handed shooting and they do quite well at close ranges. Does that mean that two handed shooting violates some sort of "rule of design"?
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2011 5:54am

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    A picture speaks a thousand words, so here's three.
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    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  5. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2011 2:03pm


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    Since I was going out to shoot this weekend I thought that video taping myself shooting one handed to see just how much and often I "tilt" would be interesting and appropriate to this discussion.



    It's interesting to note that under timer pressure (I use a phone app to time my shots..not extremely accurate but it adds a time pressure), that the degree of tilt varies from hand to hand and stage to stage.

    I also noticed that when I did this drill that I wasn't doing 360 scans so I decided to incorporate it "on the fly" and did it with an empty weapon...duh. I make no excuses.

    I then realized that this drill (called the 10-8 drill, used by the Grey Group training org) wasn't designed to leave me with a loaded magazine in many stages...I wrote a bit about that here:

    http://tgace.wordpress.com/2011/09/2...ls-and-drills/
  6. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2011 3:39pm

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    Love the fact your daughter is involved mate. Tops
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  7. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2011 3:50pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Love the fact your daughter is involved mate. Tops

    Thanks. She's the only one of the three that showed an interest so I'm capitalizing on it. ;)
  8. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2011 10:09am

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    It's interesting to note that under timer pressure (I use a phone app to time my shots..not extremely accurate but it adds a time pressure), that the degree of tilt varies from hand to hand and stage to stage.
    In my opinion, this is reason enough to maintain a vertical hold when possible - consistency. It's much easier to find horizontal reference points to align your sights quickly and consistently than it is to find quick reference points to align your sights on a tilt. Doorways, floors, furniture, the ground, the horizon, human shoulders, whatever.

    Consistency is as important in tactical shooting as it is in bullseye shooting. Harder to achieve, but equally important. Maybe you shoot tight groups anyway. I'm not saying it can't be done. But maybe they'd be a little tighter or a little faster without the tilt. Why make it harder on yourself than it has to be? I just don't see the reasoning when shooting at a distance.
  9. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2011 10:51am

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    I just don't see the reasoning when shooting at a distance.
    I must have missed that part.. were we actually talking about the merits of cantered technique in general or specific to it's merit over distance ?
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

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  10. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2011 11:03am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    I must have missed that part.. were we actually talking about the merits of cantered technique in general or specific to it's merit over distance ?
    At distance. Tgace stated that he used a cant at distance as well as for close quarters.

    Again, my position is this - I can see the merits of bringing the pistol in close to your face for close quarters shooting to facilitate movement and present a compact profile. If you need to to cant the pistol to do this comfortably, I don't have an issue with that.

    But I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would feel the need to cant their pistol when shooting at a distance. I'm not saying you can't do it. I understand the pistol will still function. But what would prompt someone to do that in the first place? I'm looking for a reason other than "it's comfortable to me" because I'm not buying that when your arm is extended there's a damn bit of additional comfort in a few degrees of cant.

    If this is routinely practiced by shooters, my suspicion is that it's something someone thought looked cool, then it caught on and stuck.
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