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  1. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2011 11:19am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    If you take a look at the photos on Ralphs website you see that almost every one shows something thats wrong.

    And Spandex Ralph? Really???
    If you have a few minutes of your life to waste, check out his You tube videos.. virtually all of them uploaded since my investigation of him carries my real name in either the title or, within the video.

    Now THAT'S Notoriety !!
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  2. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2011 6:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For the record, I'm actually pretty open to the CAR thing. I'll probably try out some training at some point. All the cool kids are doing it, so I guess it's worth a try.

    I do have some doubts about some aspects, though. I can see the logic in bringing the pistol close to your face for close quarters. Makes sense. And if that requires you to cant the pistol for comfort, then whatever. It won't make a difference in your ability to hit a man sized target at close range.

    I have concerns about shooting from a bladed stance with your pistol tucked tight to your torso. Looks like a great way to shoot yourself in the arm in a stressful situation. I know that's a common criticism of the system and I think it's a valid concern.

    I also see zero logic in shooting with a canted pistol if you're not in close quarters. I'm at a loss why anyone would do that. To me, the need for the cant is a result of a need to bring the pistol in close where a vertical grip is awkward. The need to bring the pistol in close is a result of the need to keep a compact profile and quick movement in close quarters. So, no close quarters means no cant required. What am I missing?

    Like I said, I haven't trained in the system. But I've learned from my martial arts experience that it's a mistake to take what people say hook, line and sinker if it doesn't make sense, regardless of their experience level. If something makes sense, it should be explainable to a layperson without resorting to "just try it", "because I said so" or the like.

    I'm not saying that's the approach any of you guys have taken. I hear a lot of that when I watch Paul Castle and read what he has to say, though. It's his system and lots of folks consider it the best thing since sliced bread. He has a lot to gain by promoting his system and I think it could be a situation where there's some good mixed with some bullshit and because of the good, people accept the whole system as the gospel without question.
  3. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2011 11:04am


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eh. What matters is hits and speed..in that order. If my pistol is vertical or tilted to one side or the other a bit won't really matter as long as I hit what I want to hit faster than the other guy can get lead on me.

    That being said, there is also the issue of training time. You or I may be 2X more accurate and 3X faster at close range with the CAR technique, but we would have to be trained and practiced to realize that. If I get in a shoot tomorrow and I try the CAR (which is unlikely because I'm not trained in it) I will probably not be as accurate or as fast as the way I have trained myself to shoot now.

    So do I train in various techniques to see if I would be "better" with them or do I just practice what I currently do to reach a higher level of skill? How does one sort out techniques of value (CAR??) from pure crap (the stuff discussed in this thread)?

    I think the answer lies in training in the tried and true techniques and perhaps practicing more "advanced" (even though I don't know if I think that word applies) techniques on the side until you either reject them or assimilate them into your toolbox.
  4. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/19/2011 4:15pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Eh. What matters is hits and speed..in that order. If my pistol is vertical or tilted to one side or the other a bit won't really matter as long as I hit what I want to hit faster than the other guy can get lead on me.
    Of course hits and speed are what matters. That doesn't mean you practice shitty technique until you adapt to the shittiness and put rounds on target quickly despite using crap technique.

    You haven't really answered my question, which is why would you choose to hold your pistol canted in a situation other than close quarters.

    My other concern was about the bladed stance with the pistol tucked into the body. Not shooting myself tends to be pretty high on my list of stuff that matters too.
  5. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2011 8:27pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Canting your pistol a bit hardly qualifies as "shitty technique". Maybe different from what you do. What would the disadvantages be? Im talking about a 45 deg or less cant when firing one handed. The bladed CAR stuff I cant comment on. I don't do it.

    Many shooters like Mike Pannone teach one hand shooting with a cant by explaining that it engages the forearm muscles more effectively. Other guys who have real experience putting lead in bad guys seem to like a little tilt to their handgun. It works for me to so Im not too concerned.

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  6. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2011 8:29pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Canting your pistol a bit hardly qualifies as "shitty technique". Maybe different from what you do. What would the disadvantages be? Im talking about a 45 deg or less cant when firing one handed. The bladed CAR stuff I cant comment on. I don't do it.

    Many shooters like Mike Pannone teach one hand shooting with a cant by explaining that it engages the forearm muscles more effectively. Other guys who have real experience putting lead in bad guys seem to like a little tilt to their handgun. It works for me so Im not too concerned.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  7. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2011 8:35pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Canting your pistol a bit hardly qualifies as "shitty technique". Maybe different from what you do. What would the disadvantages be? Im talking about a 45 deg or less cant when firing one handed. The bladed CAR stuff I cant comment on. I don't do it.

    Many shooters like Mike Pannone teach one hand shooting with a cant by explaining that it engages the forearm muscles more effectively for a "fighting grip" rather than a target shooting grip. Other guys who have real experience putting lead in bad guys seem to like a little tilt to their handgun. It works for me so Im not too concerned. YMMV.

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  8. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2011 8:52pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Canting your pistol a bit hardly qualifies as "shitty technique". Maybe different from what you do. What would the disadvantages be? Im talking about a 45 deg or less cant when firing one handed. The bladed CAR stuff I cant comment on. I don't do it.

    Many shooters like Mike Pannone teach one hand shooting with a cant by explaining that it engages the forearm muscles more effectively for a "fighting grip" rather than a target shooting grip. Other guys who have real experience putting lead in bad guys seem to like a little tilt to their handgun. It works for me so Im not too concerned. YMMV.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  9. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2011 9:52pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strange DROID multiple posting...sorry.
  10. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2011 10:44am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Canting your pistol a bit hardly qualifies as "shitty technique". Maybe different from what you do. What would the disadvantages be? Im talking about a 45 deg or less cant when firing one handed. The bladed CAR stuff I cant comment on. I don't do it.

    Many shooters like Mike Pannone teach one hand shooting with a cant by explaining that it engages the forearm muscles more effectively. Other guys who have real experience putting lead in bad guys seem to like a little tilt to their handgun. It works for me to so Im not too concerned.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    The idea that one handed shooting with a cant better engages the forearm muscles is an unsubstantiated claim at best.

    Again, if you're shooting a man-sized target 10 feet away, who cares? You can spit on a target from there. At distance though, I think there's no logical reason to shoot with a cant when a pistol was clearly designed to be fired in a vertical position.

    If someone employs this technique and wants to convince others of it's validity, I think the onus would be on them to explain what the advantages would be, rather than vice versa.
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