tactical firearms training bullshido

**daishi** · Posted On: 9/08/2011 11:52am

Originally Posted by devil

What's with the do-si-do maneuvers where they both turn their backs to the target they're facing and re-engage each other's targets? Umm, why??

In my opinion, this **** gets out of hand, even with people who are better trained than these dimwits. Like the stuff Magpul Dynamics does. I know what those guys' backgrounds are. I understand the reasoning for training in unorthodox positions, weapon transitions, fire and maneuver, etc. But they get a LONG way from "I'm up, they see me, I'm down."

A lot of the training that takes place now is a little too Hollywood for my taste. Like someone said earlier, it does attract the delusional ninjer type.

But yeah, these clowns are taking the retardation to a whole new level.

I agree. All too often you see these high speed people with their "initiative based tactics" and psychology of the distance of warfare" and all this stupid ****....these people are typically ones who have only done training and been weapons instructors vice those who've actually shot, and been shot at, by people. Security Forces, CQB instructors, etc.... annoying....

**Devil** · Posted On: 9/08/2011 12:47pm

While we're on a related subject, what do you fuckers think about teaching people to shoot their pistol sideways?

Personally, I think it's a complete crock of ****. Everyone I know who can shoot used to laugh their asses off at wannabe gangsta's who held their pistol sideways. Now they're teaching that **** in many LEO training courses.

I have a good friend who graduated from BLET recently. When practicing in close quarters, they told them to draw the pistol and cant it about 45 degrees. My buddy is a veteran and an experienced shooter but he bought in to the whole deal as they explained it - a more natural movement to punch the pistol out sideways than completely vertical. My response was basically, "pffft."

I think it's horseshit. Somebody thought it looked cool and decided to justify why it was a valid technique. I can see if you're reaching around a shield or something, maybe. Other than that, I call Bullshido.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 9/08/2011 3:03pm

Are you talking "gangsta sideways" or are you talking Center Axis Relock system where the gun is at a sideways angle but not completely sideways. If the former, WTF!?!?!?! If it is the latter I think it is a good system.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/08/2011 3:13pm

Originally Posted by Bodhidharma

Wow.

If these Ninjas rappeled out of the sky into Front Sight (thereby avoiding the $38,600 Platinum Ultra Commando Lifetime Membership with parking and pool access and early condo project notificartion) and took those guys on, who would prevail?

If for no other reason than the superior team cohesion and uber tacticoolness of their uniforms, I'm putting my money on these superheroes. They're like the Harlem Globetrotters of tactical firearm training. I would be surprised if they can't bend bullets.

Who are you ?

...and why are you posting in this thread ?

**Devil** · Posted On: 9/08/2011 3:14pm

The latter. Why do you think it's a good system?

**daishi** · Posted On: 9/08/2011 6:02pm

I am no pistol expert...and despite being a pistol marksmanship coach in the US military, I find it rather useless in actual combat.

Anyway, I think the sideways thing is pretty useless. I've played around with it back home on my farm with friends...but that was just for fucking around. The top slide/recoil of the pistol is designed to be absorbed by the body to help mitigate the 'kick' somewhat and maintain sight picture/allignment.

**Team Python** · Posted On: 9/09/2011 7:25pm

Originally Posted by devil

While we're on a related subject, what do you fuckers think about teaching people to shoot their pistol sideways?

Personally, I think it's a complete crock of ****. Everyone I know who can shoot used to laugh their asses off at wannabe gangsta's who held their pistol sideways. Now they're teaching that **** in many LEO training courses.

I have a good friend who graduated from BLET recently. When practicing in close quarters, they told them to draw the pistol and cant it about 45 degrees. My buddy is a veteran and an experienced shooter but he bought in to the whole deal as they explained it - a more natural movement to punch the pistol out sideways than completely vertical. My response was basically, "pffft."

I think it's horseshit. Somebody thought it looked cool and decided to justify why it was a valid technique. I can see if you're reaching around a shield or something, maybe. Other than that, I call Bullshido.

I used to think the same thing until I tried it myself. The quarter (45 degrees) turn made handling the pistol with more control than I thought it would. From now on I am using this method whenever I am doing one handed shooting.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 9/09/2011 8:09pm

Originally Posted by Team Python

I used to think the same thing until I tried it myself. The quarter (45 degrees) turn made handling the pistol with more control than I thought it would. From now on I am using this method whenever I am doing one handed shooting.

My experience was similar. I first thought it was a gimmick and had no real value outside of Splinter Cell. I tried mimicking what I saw in the videos I seen of C.A.R. When I was down range and doing an M9 range with ANA commandos I was trying it again and one of our ODA guys asked if I was doing C.A.R. He pointed out that I was doing it wrong and showed me how. It gave me a lot of control with the pistol and I could deploy it quickly. Keep in mind C.A.R. is a close quarters method not a distance marksmanship method, which is what most pistol shooters train on.

**AlphaFoxtrot51** · Posted On: 9/09/2011 10:11pm

Horrifying.

At around 1:40, why would you lower your rifle only to bring it back up into a firing position? Unnecessary extra motion.

Also, I'm trying to figure out a scenario where you would engage a target your partner was facing but you weren't.

**Team Python** · Posted On: 9/09/2011 10:51pm

Originally Posted by Gezere

My experience was similar. I first thought it was a gimmick and had no real value outside of Splinter Cell. I tried mimicking what I saw in the videos I seen of C.A.R. When I was down range and doing an M9 range with ANA commandos I was trying it again and one of our ODA guys asked if I was doing C.A.R. He pointed out that I was doing it wrong and showed me how. It gave me a lot of control with the pistol and I could deploy it quickly. Keep in mind C.A.R. is a close quarters method not a distance marksmanship method, which is what most pistol shooters train on.

Exactly.....used at close range when you can't use two hands. Everything I train for is meant for combat not a sport.