224955 Bullies, 3455 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 18 of 18
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Res Judicata is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,633

    Posted On:
    8/17/2011 3:42pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I was saying, a primary function of the core is stabilization and the best core exercises typically are the big compound exercises -- the ones that require the most stabilization from the core. Lift heavy with compound freeweight exercises and you won't need much if any supplemental "core" exercises. Shockingly, people who can pull 400 off the floor or push 200 over their heads tend to be pretty damn strong the core. Yes, for some people the core is a limiting factor -- powerlifters do a ton of anterior core work, for example.

    You really have to think about the muscles in terms of their function. Plank variations are a good exercise (stabilization); crunches are mostly not. Turkish get-ups are tremendous core exercises.

    The two best core exercises are the deadlift and the squat.
  2. Permalost is online now
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,555

    Posted On:
    8/17/2011 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shouldn't the Times article read Extra Core Training Not Necessary for Rowing ?
  3. Auszi is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    432

    Posted On:
    8/18/2011 12:14am


     Style: BJJ Beginner

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Considering It was the NY times, and not a dedicated training publication I was a bit skeptical and as Gypsy Jazz commented it looks like studies have been taken out of context.

    Still some lardasses will I'm sure use it as another excuse not to do exercise.

    But honestly didn't know that bit about damaging the spine, it was something I never thought to question. Coupled with weights training I used to do a shed load of crunches 'cause I thought it was beneficial.
  4. Prince Vlad is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    499

    Posted On:
    8/18/2011 11:21am


     Style: BJJ n stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Slightly tangental to the discussion but I've only recently started to make a proper recovery from a serious lower back injury from almost 20 years ago. After years of physio and dealing with chiropractors I tried an osteopath who got me started on Foundation Roots program which has pretty much eliminated constant lower back pain. It pretty much turns the traditional idea of core strength on its head and focuses on the posterior chain and back as opposed to the abs. This quote sums it up "The core involves two sets of muscles: deep muscles whose roles are primarily stabilizing the spine, or more generally the trunk, and shallower muscles whose primary role is movement" "For every four exercises you do for the back of the body, you get to do one for the front. I think that's the opposite of what most people are doing."
    Anyway, here's the website http://foundationroots.com/home I'd recommend the book to anyone with back pain or an interest in core development.
  5. WorldWarCheese is offline
    WorldWarCheese's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    2,121

    Posted On:
    8/19/2011 11:58am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kinda on topic: My muay thai trainer has me focus almost solely on situps and running for exercises (I mean aside from jumping rope, shadowboxing, bagwork, etc) and every fighter has a 6 pack. He said it's to make "armor" for your gut from knees. I don't know anything about whether crunches will destroy your spine, or whether core-strength is useless for crew, but is there any truth behind this "gut-shield-of-muscle"?
  6. Fish Of Doom is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Oslo
    Posts
    136

    Posted On:
    8/19/2011 12:07pm


     Style: Karate, mostly.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese View Post
    Kinda on topic: My muay thai trainer has me focus almost solely on situps and running for exercises (I mean aside from jumping rope, shadowboxing, bagwork, etc) and every fighter has a 6 pack. He said it's to make "armor" for your gut from knees. I don't know anything about whether crunches will destroy your spine, or whether core-strength is useless for crew, but is there any truth behind this "gut-shield-of-muscle"?
    yes. it's muscle. it's around your guts (literally), and you'de making it stronger.
  7. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,476

    Posted On:
    8/19/2011 1:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've given up on standard crunches for the past year. I'm not certain that they were related to my lower back problems, but the possibility made me look for other exercises. My back hasn't bothered me in more than a year, but that may be resultant on other things.

    My abs routine looks like a combination of these exercises.

    Pallof press-hold for 30 seconds (Best thing I've found, and you can really up the weight here)
    Planks for 60.
    Weighted sit-ups on a decline bench.
    Medicine ball twists while sitting on a balance ball.
    Jack Knifes on a big bouncy ball.

    I have half a dozen other techniques but these are the ones I mostly stick with. They leave a better longer burn than just sit-ups did.
  8. JesseSpohn is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2

    Posted On:
    8/19/2011 2:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anti-crunch articles (anti spinal flexion articles) come out every day, saying that crunches are either dangerous or ineffective. Res Judica pretty much hit the nail on the head. A primary function of the core is STABILIZATION and people who deadlift or push press heavy are strong the core.

    Spinal flexion is not necessary to work the core! What I was saying before Pizdoff told me to come here was that real core training (planks, squats, ect) will actually correct bad posture, which means better performance in ALL lifts, and prevents injury.

    “Personally, I do not believe that it is necessary to specifically train the core". Improper crunches don't lead to better performance therefore all core training is useless." I'm not even going to respond to this.

    Here's some food for thought. Edmar Freitas did 133,986 crunches in 30 hours, killing his record of 111,000 in one day. Pacquiao crunches 4,000 times every day and Herschel Walker has been crunching 3,500 times a day, he starting crunching when he was 12. He's now 49.

    Some people are more worried about crunches being dangerous than ineffective. Here's the thing. Studies say that spinal extension is bad, spinal rotation is bad, lateral bending is bad, that static compression is bad, dynamic compression is bad, etc, and I can probably source them all. This means that any movement, or lack of movement, of the spine is bad for you. Ironically enough, those with the strongest core are in less danger of injuries (when lifts and exercises are performed correctly).

    If you're going to crunch, work the muscles and not the spine. It's as simple as that. Your spine shouldn't flex to max capacity when doing crunches.

    If your trainer is making you do countless crunches, you might have to do them due to a respect issue (Some trainers get angry when you question them), but honestly - are you trying to get stronger or are you trying to get some cardio in? Doing 300 crunches is like doing 300 squats - maybe it's time you add some weight and actually get stronger instead of gaining muscular endurance at an extremely weak level. If there's so much weight that you can only do sets of 6-20 reps, there will be more STRENGTH gain, better muscular endurance gain, and depending on your diet, more hypertrophy. Yes, your abs will look big and intimidating, and you won't look like a 13-year old teenager that thinks he's tough because he has low bodyfat.

    Joking aside, remember, we are not normal athletes. We play a game where other people attack our anatomy hard and often (striking and grappling) so a strong core is NECESSARY TO US, much more necessary than rowers.

    Just my 2 cents.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.