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  1. Footwork is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2011 7:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    So what happens when you disagree with your instructor?

    A little background, train competitive long fist (yes, the non-fighting crap) and sanda for a few years, and decided to switch to TCMA causes I busted my knees (not martial arts, long story). Was looking for a good ba gua instructor but discovered Xing Yi along the way, and an instructor who teaches it.

    At first, I was really happy, until I started getting really strange training from the instructor. While I'm not a stick in the mud for "traditional" training, using Wing Chi basics as foundation work for Xing Yi puzzled me. Then I was taught to make modifications to my form which were everything the materials I was reading was warning me NOT to do (like foot stomping, turning my feet inward instead of pointing forward, etc). All these he had some explanation for, so I continued. Then my knees got worse.

    I had started TCMA in hopes that it will save my knees, not get them busted up from bad instructions. After a few slightly heated discussions, he ended up ignoring me in classes and I quit.

    To give credit where it's due, not all his instructions were bad, just the 'modifications' he came up with himself. Now, practicing by myself, with books and videos of respected China teachers, my knees are getting better. What would you do in my shoes? Was I wrong to question?
  2. bobyclumsyninja is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2011 8:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Same thing you did.
  3. TheSERVICE is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 1:27am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shao Lin Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Did you talk to the instructor about your prior injuries?
  4. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 1:32am

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank God, now you can do something worth your time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Ups to Battlefields for dropping the sage wisdom.

    You are like a Pimp Yoda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    Battlefields... You're more of a man than I am.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  5. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 1:36am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I second theSERVICE's question: Did you talk in depth with your instructor about your limitations? Did you ask questions about what he was doing, specific to your needs?

    If you did, and were still unsatisfied: You did the right thing. Don't waste your time with something that doesn't fit your needs.

    If you didn't: You may or may not have quit prematurely.
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
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  6. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 1:43am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Footwork View Post
    A little background, train competitive long fist (yes, the non-fighting crap) and sanda for a few years, and decided to switch to TCMA causes I busted my knees (not martial arts, long story). Was looking for a good ba gua instructor but discovered Xing Yi along the way, and an instructor who teaches it.

    At first, I was really happy, until I started getting really strange training from the instructor. While I'm not a stick in the mud for "traditional" training, using Wing Chi basics as foundation work for Xing Yi puzzled me. Then I was taught to make modifications to my form which were everything the materials I was reading was warning me NOT to do (like foot stomping, turning my feet inward instead of pointing forward, etc). All these he had some explanation for, so I continued. Then my knees got worse.

    I had started TCMA in hopes that it will save my knees, not get them busted up from bad instructions. After a few slightly heated discussions, he ended up ignoring me in classes and I quit.

    To give credit where it's due, not all his instructions were bad, just the 'modifications' he came up with himself. Now, practicing by myself, with books and videos of respected China teachers, my knees are getting better. What would you do in my shoes? Was I wrong to question?
    I can't comment on CMA or TCMA personally but if you can't find suitable instruction in an art you want to train find another style. Books and video or distance learning are very limiting. If there are absolutely no other options an any other style perhaps they (books/video) are an option but there's got to be something else available.

    It puzzles me why some people insist on being "loyal" to one style. I realize when you've done one style for a long time starting something completely new sounds like a big undertaking, many people don't want to give up their status as an experienced or even semi-experienced practitioner to start a new art as a complete newb.

    Maybe you could tell us what you're looking for and the general area you're in and we could suggest some schools to start checking out. Also, discussing any health issues with a doctor are a good place to start. In some cases practitioners of an art are mislead to believe that the art's head instructor is so knowledgeable he knows more about anatomy than a doctor, i'm sure you're not dealing with anything like that though.
  7. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 1:46am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Footwork View Post
    To give credit where it's due, not all his instructions were bad, just the 'modifications' he came up with himself. Now, practicing by myself, with books and videos of respected China teachers, my knees are getting better.
    I doubt the implied causative link here is accurate. You're probably just taking it easy on yourself with the sort of half-assed practice working with videos and books inevitably involve, and thus your knees are feeling better because they're not actually under stress.

    That said, if what you're really practicing is hurting your damaged knees, you should stop. The average CMA instructor isn't really going to know what to do with someone with bad knees, honestly. You'll have to hunt around a bit to find one that does. The person you're studying under doesn't seem to have the knowledge you need.
  8. Footwork is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/15/2011 12:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Combine reply post to all you good folks:

    Actually I did mention my injuries, very first day on training, and every time he asked me to do something that hurt my knees (like stomping with my foot turned inward), he's reply was "It's causes you're not used to it" or "you don't understand how to do it right, keep going till you do."

    After quitting, I did some research and went to a Tai Chi instructor (he's day job happens to be a TCM doctor :D), my knees got better after a few weeks of practice, but had to stop due to work commitments (but I'm going back when I sort that out, you can count on that!)

    I like the Xing Yi style, which is why I still practice via the books and stuff, IF I can find a decent instructor in my area, I will sign up again.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/16/2011 5:55pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The initial learning is stomping. No, you aren't supposed to stomp, but it is a similar motion that many people refer to as the falling step. Part of the pain is "because you are not used to it." Books are not always your friends as different flavors of xingyi have different training methodologies.

    What was the name/province that the Xingyi was derived?


    Also remember you are in control of your health and body. Many people forget that coaches, instructors, and trainers think people are pussies looking for outs. They are there to teach you and help push you pass your self imposed limits. I always told people, when I instructed, that you know your body I don't. If you have a serious medical condition tell me and explain it. Maybe you did, but your "mention" sounds like "ow that hurts I have bad knees." Not here is what happened, I have to be careful, so on and so forth.
  10. Footwork is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/16/2011 10:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    The initial learning is stomping. No, you aren't supposed to stomp, but it is a similar motion that many people refer to as the falling step. Part of the pain is "because you are not used to it." Books are not always your friends as different flavors of xingyi have different training methodologies.

    What was the name/province that the Xingyi was derived?


    Also remember you are in control of your health and body. Many people forget that coaches, instructors, and trainers think people are pussies looking for outs. They are there to teach you and help push you pass your self imposed limits. I always told people, when I instructed, that you know your body I don't. If you have a serious medical condition tell me and explain it. Maybe you did, but your "mention" sounds like "ow that hurts I have bad knees." Not here is what happened, I have to be careful, so on and so forth.
    You're right, different schools of Xing Yi have very different footwork. Xin Yi Liu He prefer stomping, much like Ba Ji, those closer to Hebei schools prefer 踩 ("stepping on", which I believe is the falling step you have referred too). I lean towards the Hebei school, and in my head, Xin Yi Liu He is a different act all together, with very different routines, concepts and footwork. I learned chin na during my sanda days, aching pains and sharp pains indicating damage is clear to me :)

    As for the Province which Xing Yi came from, that depends on the version you subscribe too doesn't it lol. The 'official' version from China's 'Central' now is that Li Luo Neng derived it from the Dai family Xin Yi Liu He (in Shan Xi) then taught his 8 famous students from both Shan Xi and Hebei in his life time.

    When I told my instructor, it was more like 'I have a medical condition, here is my MRI', somehow that never registered.
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