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  1. #11
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    I can honestly say yes to the first three... We do those drills pretty obsessively, and I even drill them on my own (in fact, I did for about 30 minutes this morning). I also have pretty insane grip/forearm strength from Olympic weightlifting, along with actual grip-specific exercises that I do.

    Now for the last one, no. Point taken.
    Well you're 80% further than 99% of people that ask the question, if that's any consolation.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    so am i the only mudansaha here that actually tries to follow judoka_uk's, bkr's and pt_nippon's advice to stick to the classic sleeve/lapel grip?
    It seems so, but then, you impress me as a very intelligent, thoughtful, and mature individual.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post

    The HCG tends to leaving the lapel hand elbow open, which, to a decent judoka, is an open invitation to throw uke. So if using the HCG, you have to keep your forearm against uke chest to keep the elbow down.

    Other noobs won't have a clue, so it works on them, or, judoka who have no clue in general, which might well be higher ranking (including black belts). Taller judoka often rely on the HCG if they have no one their height to train with or crappy instruction in basics.


    Ben
    Quoted for truth.

    Found that out the hard way yesterday. I usually train at a small recreational judo club but have started training at a bigger more competition focused club aswell theres as massive difference between the skill of the judoka at the two different clubs. Tried taking a high coller grip at the new club out of desperation and me and the mat got acquainted very quickly. Bad times.....

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Quoted for truth.

    Found that out the hard way yesterday. I usually train at a small recreational judo club but have started training at a bigger more competition focused club aswell theres as massive difference between the skill of the judoka at the two different clubs. Tried taking a high coller grip at the new club out of desperation and me and the mat got acquainted very quickly. Bad times.....
    Yet another person in the mold of Res Judicata, there may yet be hope.

    Seriously, going to a more competitive club is usually an eye opening experience. Keep going and you'll get better.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    It seems so, but then, you impress me as a very intelligent, thoughtful, and mature individual.
    i just come off like that online. in person i'm extremely juvenile :P

    serious question, if uke gets a HCG and lets his elbow wing out, what are good throws for me from there? i'm assuming that i should be going for ippon seoi nage, but anything else?
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
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  6. #16
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    serious question, if uke gets a HCG and lets his elbow wing out, what are good throws for me from there? i'm assuming that i should be going for ippon seoi nage, but anything else?
    I've never seen a kyu grade throw someone who had a HCG with ippon seoi nage. I've seen plenty of dan grades tell them that's what you should do. I've also never seen those same dan grades actually do it themselves.

    If they have a HCG grip on you -snap it off.

    Its really hard to do your Judo when someone has, even a bad, HCG. Just snap it off.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i just come off like that online. in person i'm extremely juvenile :P

    serious question, if uke gets a HCG and lets his elbow wing out, what are good throws for me from there? i'm assuming that i should be going for ippon seoi nage, but anything else?

    That's what I do, but then that's my tokui waza, so it's an automatic reaction for me.

    Other forward throws will work, though.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I've never seen a kyu grade throw someone who had a HCG with ippon seoi nage. I've seen plenty of dan grades tell them that's what you should do. I've also never seen those same dan grades actually do it themselves.

    If they have a HCG grip on you -snap it off.

    Its really hard to do your Judo when someone has, even a bad, HCG. Just snap it off.
    With the elbow winged out it's not so hard. However, snapping it off and controlling the sleeve is the normal option.

    It's very difficult to do ISN against a strong collar grip correctly applied, and I would rarely attempt it in that situation. Going for the ISN and switching to Kouchi Gari or Kouchi Makikomi is a viable option, but depends on getting a strong reaction from the ISN,which, if the HGC is very strong, may not happen.

    Of course, it's nearly impossible to snap off some HCG in some cases, so avoiding getting into that position and having some sort of option to fight out of it is a must.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  9. #19
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    With the elbow winged out it's not so hard. However, snapping it off and controlling the sleeve is the normal option.

    It's very difficult to do ISN against a strong collar grip correctly applied, and I would rarely attempt it in that situation. Going for the ISN and switching to Kouchi Gari or Kouchi Makikomi is a viable option, but depends on getting a strong reaction from the ISN,which, if the HGC is very strong, may not happen.

    Of course, it's nearly impossible to snap off some HCG in some cases, so avoiding getting into that position and having some sort of option to fight out of it is a must.
    So you can actually do this?

    I've always dismissed it as one of those stupid solutions that crop up every now and again from dan grades at rec. clubs.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    So you can actually do this?

    I've always dismissed it as one of those stupid solutions that crop up every now and again from dan grades at rec. clubs.
    No, I'm just making it up. Note I said "when the elbow is winged out". Attempting it against a competent judoka with a strong HCG is suicide. I know, I've tried it.

    I HAVE thrown other black belts with it, but they had a less than perfect HCG, and other subterfuge was involved. Even at nationals in the master's division, for ippon.

    Basic and methodical is of course to cut the grip, control the sleeve, regrip, move attack.

    Ben
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