MAP fun: Kenjutsuka poits out Hatsumi Sensei using bad iai and the Bujinkan defenders

**shinbushi** · Posted On: 5/19/2011 1:12pm

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...d.php?t=101788

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Hmmm.....Interesting....Several deeply flawed principles shown in the first video...Fun though..

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I know many people seem to feel happy with what he teaches, and I also know that a lot of what he teaches isn't Ken, but if this IS his Ken, his students would learn far more from attending the next Aikido class at the Ayase Budokan, or a Kendo class...It's just more bad excuses for a lackluster attempt at training...No?

Well.....Maybe it is...But that doesn't dismay anyone here?

Othe people practicing kenjutsu chime in in the thread. Problem s most students would not know the error described. It really show the level of cool-aid drinking in the organization. If a bad waza is demonstrated own it. Thought this is ken I think this happens in all realms of the Bujinkan. It is really fun to read all the replies trying to defend the waza including, "He is doing it in public and on film, so he is doing it wrong on purpose to confuse those not in the Bujinkan."

**Colin** · Posted On: 5/19/2011 1:15pm

Originally Posted by shinbushi

"He is doing it in public and on film, so he is doing it wrong on purpose to confuse those not in the Bujinkan."

This reminds me of those ridiculous william cheung stories about the so-called "TWS and MWS"

**Permalost** · Posted On: 5/19/2011 1:23pm

his students would learn far more from attending the next Aikido class

Damn, that's harsh.

**shotfghter** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 12:58am

In all honesty, if a Bujinkan school were to open near me, I would sign up. No troll.

I'd get my belt(s) and make 15 bucks a student. I train 5 students in one hour and I'm making good money. I'd even make my own Bujinkan style, throw in some Judo, BJJ, and wrestling. Ninjutsu would be on the forefront of the martial arts community.

So obviously you could say I'm a Hatsumi defender as well.

I mean honestly, how can one style say to another, "You're doing it completely wrong"? Don't get started on how this website does it, and blah blah aliveness, fundamentals.

Case and point, I do BJJ and Judo. Well when I grapple against High level Judo players, they give their backs. They want to break the pin,they're taking it easy on me, they think its safer, whatever.

Is a BJJ guy going to say "Well they're doing it wrong, fundamentally it isn't right!". They better not, because these are Olympic level athletes. it's just the way Judo plays.

This is after all, just my opinion.

**kendamu** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 5:06am

This has me interested in Ninjutsu. Which issue of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles should I use as a starting point?

I was thinking Issue 21 since it has good Iai.

**superninjagod** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 8:21am

To Shot fighter

Hmmm, seems to me that this isn't true at all. Either a techniques works and is effective, or it does not. In your case the judo players ARE doing it wrong. They are doing it wrong on purpose so that YOU can achieve a position that you never could so that they can work a weak part of their game. They would never do this in a tournament setting against an equivalent fighter.

One of the complaints against Hatsumi is that he has no real fighting experience. Alot of his techniques look like he is just making them up. For example there was this one clip I saw where he was standing there with his sword in its sheath with an Uke double grabbing his shoulders. His lesson that day was not to stand in front of your opponent and try to draw your sword. But to "Use your foot work!!". At this point he starts to walk a circle around his opponent and then draw his sword for a cut. It was the stupidest thing I ever saw.

Anyway, this website stands as a testament that there is a lot of BS and reasons to criticize other martial arts.

**shotfghter** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 1:03pm

I'd have to disagree superninjagod.

In judo, players just can't stay in side control or else a pin count will start. So the players give their backs to break the pin, turtle up and wait for the ref. to "Matte". Further more, the time spent on the ground is a fraction of the time spent in standing. I could go further into it, by saying BJJ gives 4 points for the back, and two points for the take down - while in judo, an Ippon can end the match immediately, or enough waza-ari. No points given for the hooks being put in like in BJJ.

Neither of them do it wrong, it is just two different philosophies. I'm thinking about it now and I understand that I have NO knowledge of sword fighting, but Hatsumi's style is not just sword fighting, it's grappling, sword fighting, ninja star throwing, etc. all in one. Kendo or a strictly sword fighting style will obviously do things differently.

I'm not going to get into his techniques, or his school or whatever because it's been done to death.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 1:04pm

How Judoka strategically act during contest is different to how they train in their club during randori.

**shotfghter** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 1:08pm

I think the discussion is technique, not training method. I might be wrong.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 5/22/2011 1:12pm

Well you're talking about training method so if you don't know what the discussion is supposed to be about and you're leading it, there's not much hope.