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  1. Super8astard is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2011 12:03am


     Style: Issh"i"nryu fixed....

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What is the value of a suplex?

    I'm going to do this backwards and explain why I ask first instead of ask then explain...

    First, I figured this forum would be the most likely to get a serious answer. Since there are threads started last year on the front page, if this has been brought up before it must've been a while ago...

    Anyway, this has been a topic of intrest among my friends and I lately. With Fedor being stopped by Hendo and so many people saying "If Randlemen can drop him on his fucking head and he can recover, then the fight shouldn't have stopped over a reach-around punch," it made me ask what a suplex is really good for.

    Cung-Le in his San Shou days is another example. He straight threw motherfuckers around. However, some of those suplex (what is the plural on that anyway?) amounted to nothing more than getting a body lock of some sort and flopping to his back, bringing his opponent down on top of him, then rolling over on top of his opponent. I saw him do a tiger suplex, even doing everything right, that was basically the result. He got the points, but it obviously drained him more than hurt his opponent.

    In the UFC we see a lot of big throws/slams/suplex that take a lot of energy, but do almost no damage at all. Any throw of Frankie Edgar's for example, the Hughes Trigg rematch, even the gorgeous plex on Fedor mentioned earlier. That looked awesome, but it didn't seem like it did any signifacant, or even disorienting damage.

    Granted there have been some killer ones that changed or ended fights, but what's the pay off? This was my favorite technique when I was freestyle and Greco-ing in high school, but that was for points. I used to think I could use this technique in RL if I had to, and it be the end all. It seems on average, it's more likely that a good sup will only give me a favorable position than bring high impact damage, and cost me a lot of energy in the process.



    I don't care whether you're talking real fight or mma, is it worth using in either situation? If everything goes right, you have position, grip, leverage, all to the point you minimize the effort and still pull off the move, is it really the best use of energy considering the return? If "best" is too subjective, should this technique ever be used over another, and if so, why and what needs to go right?

    In other words, how do you weigh the risk/reward? Or, is there any way TO weigh it, other than just doing it as a trained reaction to a situation?
  2. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/06/2011 3:08am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It goes backward when a lot of throws go forward without exposing your back. I throw shitty suplexes though more just some sort of bodylock and roll that puts me on top.

    I have used one in a street fight
  3. Super8astard is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2011 11:04am


     Style: Issh"i"nryu fixed....

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I have used one in a street fight
    I have too, but the guy was smash ass drunk. It was like throwing a dummy that could support its own weight.
  4. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 8:24am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Super8astard View Post
    I have too, but the guy was smash ass drunk. It was like throwing a dummy that could support its own weight.
    Yeah ditto. I went for the body lock and the guy pretty much threw himself because he was swinging so hard. So It became this shitty over the knee thing rather than me picking the guy up over my head.
  5. kismasher is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 8:55am

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     Style: fitness

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    one could argue that a value of the suplex is being able to gain strong positional control without severely injuring someone. especially a drunk dumbass that will probably regret their actions later.
  6. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 10:42pm

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     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kismasher View Post
    one could argue that a value of the suplex is being able to gain strong positional control without severely injuring someone.
    Please tell me you are joking. Am I the only one who considers THIS to be a proper suplex?



    If you know what your doing you will plant someone on their head. Screw up you've thrown someone on top of you and spiked your head on the ground. Still, with how many variations there are it is a valuable throw.
  7. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 10:58pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's why I usually do tani otoshi in the same position. Lots of bullshido has had an obsession with MEGATON SLAMS at the expense of good standing grappling technique. Recall Pizdoff's obsession with doing whatever Rampage and Wanderlei did.

    Which is not to say that suplexes can't be technical. But it's one of those things that can easily become gotarded if you let it.


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  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 11:05pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've won one fight via suplex. I love my suplexes. People fear my suplexes. I'll suplex my own mom if it came down to it. SUUUUUUUUPLLEEEEEEEEEEEX!
  9. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 11:08pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    That's why I usually do tani otoshi in the same position. Lots of bullshido has had an obsession with MEGATON SLAMS at the expense of good standing grappling technique. Recall Pizdoff's obsession with doing whatever Rampage and Wanderlei did.

    Which is not to say that suplexes can't be technical. But it's one of those things that can easily become gotarded if you let it.
    Tani Otoshi in the wrong hands is plenty go-tarded as you put it. I've seen more colored belts rip uke knees with Tani Otoshi than any other throw in the Gokyo.

    Not saying you would do that, all the one's you've shown were plenty safe.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 3:16am

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     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The video says "german suplex"... I thought a german suplex was when you were front-to-front with the opponent, and a standard suplex was when you were front-to-back with your opponent. Do I have this wrong?
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