Sorry, my fault. I saw how the witnesses in the train car twisted their statements to be one sided, and faulty. This is an aspect of the reality of self defense and using your training that many don't think about or even understand how screwed up things can get when you are dealing with people easily swayed by TV, radio, and the internet. It's out, people are thought about it, back to the levity!!!!
Originally Posted by Snake Plissken
HA! you're right! I did that! Spell check highlighted it and I clicked the wrong word when it corrected. Four sixteen hour shifts in five days has me weary, and I'm sure I made many other spelling or grammatical errors.
Of course to some on this site, wouldn't the young man's action be parody of force?
When I was in Crim-J we learned:
Originally Posted by Rzero
Assault is an attempt, coupled with the present ability to achieve, any unwanted touching, or injury.
Battery is a successful assault.
If this was California, I don't think he would be held to the standard of assault or battery or even self defense. I believe at that point he was effecting a citizen's arrest of a suspected felon; in which case he has the ability to detain the individual and use whatever force necessary to detain him. Once he calls the PD or SO, they are required to accept the arrest on the citizen's behalf. If they don't it is a crime.
Originally Posted by Dead Money
It's not a good idea for citizens to go around attempting to arrest people they suspect to be criminals, because if you make mistake in judgement or identity, you made a false arrest, and I believe any force you used would then become battery, and if you made him change location, could even be considered kidnapping. Best to try and keep him in sight, and give a good description to the PD or SO, so they can make the arrest.
Originally Posted by Aikironin21
Analysis: lady singing on public train: Disorderly conduct.
Bald guy telling her to shut up: Disorderly conduct.
Hong Kong Phooey putting his hands on the bald guy:
Although many people think that "assault and battery" is one crime, or that the terms "assault" and "battery" can be used interchangeably, neither are true. Assault and battery are actually quite different.
Stated in Penal Code law 242 pc, the California crime of battery takes place when you actually use force or violence against another person.8 Unlike an assault, it isn’t just an attempt to inflict harm.
As San Bernardino criminal defense attorney Michael Scafiddi explains9, "The easiest way to distinguish the crimes is this…an assault doesn’t necessarily involve any actual physical contact -- a battery does. Put another way, an ‘assault’ is an ‘attempted battery’, and a ‘battery’ is a ‘completed assault’".
If Hong Kong Phooey or his attorney claim he was threatened, well, he never left the damn train. Throw that argument out the window.
I've always remembered the difference by remembering that there is such a phrase as "verbal assault" (meaning that physical contact is not a prerequisite), whereas "battery" is related to the word "beating".
For whatever that was worth.
It's hard to leave a moving train. Up to the point till after the fight, the train was moving. If you are talking about a civil matter, I still stand with my personal belief that he assumed the risk of getting his butt kicked when he intervened on the crazy lady's behalf.
Originally Posted by vaquero de las nalgas
Honestly, I think the only person that could be convicted of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt would be the bald guy. That's not to say that other crimes weren't necessarily committed, but it's a lot murkier. It's not really illegal to sing on a subway, and Mr. Pajamas can murk up the waters by claiming defense of the singing lady.
Originally Posted by CheeksWWAC
You two guys wouldnt help an old granny if some angry guy was at her? I dont believe that for one moment
Originally Posted by wetware
Besides I recon pink hat lady had put coward guy up to it and was egging him on, the bitch!
Depends on how long she's been "singing". Honestly, though, I wouldn't have pushed the guy. It looked like baldy was trying to reason with her before he was shoved. I also would have asked her, politely, to shut the **** up. I'm guessing that I have better people skills than baldy, but I also did not have to listen to her for however long he had to listen to her. That singing is enough to drive anyone to madness.
Originally Posted by doofaloofa
Pink hat probably had a part to play in it as well, ahhh.... white knight syndrome.