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  1. daishi is online now

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    Mar 2010
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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 1:51pm


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kihon Dosa...I can't give you a link because I don't have access to Youtube as I am on a government computer in Afghanistan. If you youtube or google kihon dosa, you should find it. There is also a set called Kihon Dosa to Kanren Waza which includes a practical application, like a bunkai, to the movements. They are very specific and I doubt very much you could get much out of them from watching it on Youtube...your body is put in EXACT positions, to minute detail, that is almost impossible to get right without someone else watching you...angle of feet, elbows, hands, weight distribution, head and eye position, breathing, toes, etc... Just something I can't imagine someone doing a la 'monkey see monkey do.' Anyway, feel free to youtube it if curious.

    Try youtube'ing Koho Ukemi and see what you come up with. Its an exercise we do, (I was once told its based off an old Judo warm up exercise from the Kodokan), where you stand with feet together, drop on your butt, roll back on your shoulders...at this point the mat in touching just your shoulders, head tucked, legs straight so a line can be drawn from your toes to your shoulders, hands at your side,...your core should be pretty well engaged at this point..try to hold that pose in the "air" for a half second or so, then as momentum takes you back your, kick your heels under your butt and try to pop back up with both feet together. So your feet should stay together the whole time, though you likely won't be able to do that consistently until you practice, so you can let your feet come apart and 'step' up until you get a little more used to the standing-ground-standing transition. We have two variations; koho ukemi ichi (what I described above), and koho ukemi ni (same but you slap the mat with your hands to 'break' your fall). Its a good little balance + cardio workout that also works core and dexterity.

    Ignorami,
    Individually the kihon dosa are:

    -hiriki no yosei ichi, and ni (the famous 'elbow power, the ni variant is the same as first but with a body shift)
    -tsugiashi taihenko (shuffle, body change...almost looks like sayundo except with yoshin kamae and at a 30 degree angle instead of 90)
    -fumikomi taihenko (cross step, body change)
    -hyaku hachi ju do kaiten (180 degree pivot)
    -fumikomi hyaku hachi ju do kaiten (cross step 180 deg pivot)
    -kyu ju do kaiten (95 degree pivot)
    -shumatsu dosa ichi and ni...I think I spelled that one wrong. (this is another well recognized one, also called 'fixing movement' or 'end of class exercise'...but it simulates the yoshin kihon variation of wrist grab shihonage).

    Some of these aren't dont at Yoshinkan honbu anymore...a lot of my influence comes from someone who was a head instructor there, but left in the 70's for North America.
  2. Aikironin21 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 2:42pm


     Style: Aikido, Kajukembo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Common fallacy. Specificity in weight training does not mean adding weight to the exact same action. In fact, that can be detrimental. Swinging a weighted bat is different from swinging a regular weight bat and you end up training your body to do the wrong thing. You want to be using weights to make your body stronger to support the sport you are training for. If you are a sprinter, training starts with rocks tied to your ankles is a bad idea. But squats with a big upward explosive movement are probably helpful (just guessing, not a track coach here).
    But he'snot trying to make his technique stronger or faster, he's trying to not get winded during regular class; but doesn't want to do any thing other than Aikido for exercise. It's akin to having to walk a distance. I weigh 230lbs, and in my job I wear gear, protective vest, grenades, baton, restraints, gas mask, along with my uniform. By the time I assume my post I go from weighing 230lbs to close to 270lbs. Carrying around an extra 30 to 35+ lbs for anywhere from eight to sixteen hours wears you down. Walking two or three miles on the yard, with my gear seems harder than walking five or six without it. Now I'm not saying I can walk any faster or pull more weight because of this, but I definitely can walk further without getting as tired.

    So if he were to add resistance to his personal Aikido practice like suggested, when in class without it, he should be able finish putting forth same effort, because he is physically moving less weight around in class, for less duration. I agree it is not the most efficient way, or practical for any hope of self defense application, but as the only option for someone who doesn't want to exercise to get through class, it's a good start.
  3. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 2:55pm


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cheers Daishi.

    I can do them (badly), but I didn't know the names of them, so couldn't look them up effectively.

    I know monkey see, monkey do is no good. I figured though, that if he could recognise which elements applied to which technique, he could easily apply the same exercises to however his style does those techniques.

    That Koho Ukemi is one of the things I was trying to describe in my little list too. In that instance, didn't even know it had a name. I learnt that from a visiting Tomiki teacher.

    Like Aikironin says, this isn't ideal, but if he wants to get fitter by just doing Aikido, then doing the aikido in a more physically taxing way is about the best he can do.

    Mister: What style of Aikido is it that you do? If Traditional/Aikikai, any idea of of lineage, as that is a pretty broad church.


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  4. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 3:05pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikironin21 View Post
    But he'snot trying to make his technique stronger or faster, he's trying to not get winded during regular class; but doesn't want to do any thing other than Aikido for exercise. It's akin to having to walk a distance. I weigh 230lbs, and in my job I wear gear, protective vest, grenades, baton, restraints, gas mask, along with my uniform. By the time I assume my post I go from weighing 230lbs to close to 270lbs. Carrying around an extra 30 to 35+ lbs for anywhere from eight to sixteen hours wears you down. Walking two or three miles on the yard, with my gear seems harder than walking five or six without it. Now I'm not saying I can walk any faster or pull more weight because of this, but I definitely can walk further without getting as tired.
    There's a few differences there. You mentioned in your previous post ankle and wrist weights - those we recommend flat-out against for runners, as swinging that extra weight on the ends of your arms/legs causes lots of problems. In your case you are just packing extra weight more centrally. You are no doubt fitter because of it but you have to think about what you are training for. Not to mention there is a lot of problems taking ukemi with any extra equipment on, I doubt any sensei would allow that on the mats.
  5. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 7:05pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks Daishi, you're very helpful as usual, I'm looking into ways where I can incorporate this "creatively" into my training, I just got back from training today and I train completely differently now, I exhausted myself again and it was great.

    I also did some exercise reps with a mate, we did some joint exercises where we use each others' body weight that I can't quite explain but they're fun and taxing, they involve stomach muscles, chest, back, and some general stretching.

    (I don't quite understand the Koho Ukemi part though, I searched on Youtube with no avail)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    Cheers Daishi.

    I can do them (badly), but I didn't know the names of them, so couldn't look them up effectively.

    I know monkey see, monkey do is no good. I figured though, that if he could recognise which elements applied to which technique, he could easily apply the same exercises to however his style does those techniques.

    That Koho Ukemi is one of the things I was trying to describe in my little list too. In that instance, didn't even know it had a name. I learnt that from a visiting Tomiki teacher.

    Like Aikironin says, this isn't ideal, but if he wants to get fitter by just doing Aikido, then doing the aikido in a more physically taxing way is about the best he can do.

    Mister: What style of Aikido is it that you do? If Traditional/Aikikai, any idea of of lineage, as that is a pretty broad church.
    This question is tricky to answer...

    The short answer is I don't know.

    The long answer is that there has been many resident Japanese teachers in my country in the past 20 years or so when they were first "planting Aikido roots" or whatever they call it, and everyone picks something up from one or more of them, and in addition to that, we're not usually trained by the same person, and each one of my seniors has trained primarily under a different Japanese teacher back then.

    The situation...is messy.

    My country isn't exactly the most disciplined of them all, and the Dojo isn't exactly an Aikido Dojo either, it's a Judo Dojo that we share because Aikido doesn't have as many followers as Judo, and it doesn't make much money for the club that finances it because there are no competitions and championships.

    But then again there isn't much financing to begin with.

    Long answer too long, right?

    Edit: It's Aikikai, and that's all I know
    Last edited by Mister; 8/09/2011 7:47pm at .
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