Master Ryan Lawson - DMA, Derby, UK

**psmithson** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 10:37am

Ok,

I do not have any real evidence and I think this is partly due to how clever the guy is in the sense that he does not plaster information about himself and his club all over the internet.

Does the fact that he claims to be a Master grade not speak for itself though? I noticed on the website that it also says about kung-fu so that is 5 martial arts he claims to be an instructor off.

I would love for him to come on here and prove me wrong and be able to show his certification or at least tell us about his lineage but I’m not going to hold my breathe.

Thanks for the help anyway

**battheo** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 10:53am

Originally Posted by psmithson

Ok,

I do not have any real evidence and I think this is partly due to how clever the guy is in the sense that he does not plaster information about himself and his club all over the internet.

Does the fact that he claims to be a Master grade not speak for itself though? I noticed on the website that it also says about kung-fu so that is 5 martial arts he claims to be an instructor off.

I would love for him to come on here and prove me wrong and be able to show his certification or at least tell us about his lineage but I’m not going to hold my breathe.

Thanks for the help anyway

Ok,

Well, I'll look at his website more closely and send him an e mail this evening.

He has to claim some rank, whatever it might be, in order to teach. If we can pin him down on what, then it can be investigated. Refusing to be transparent about your credentials without reason is damning in and of itself IMO.

I'll post up my e mail once it's done, and any reply I receive.

FTR, while I don't particularly like the word 'master' as a martial arts honorific full stop, it's a bit of a dead end argument in my opinion. I think the traditional response from that camp is that it comes from the word 'maestro' which simply means teacher. Whether you agree with that or not, I think it's a case of semantics rather than hard facts (such as "I have a fifth dan from Mas Oyama" which can easily be proven or disproven).

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 11:03am

Having taken a good look at both Lawson's website and Facebook, my first impressions were that they are both intentionally aimed at people who have little to no prior knowledge or experience of martial arts.

The main website reads like a business platform (I understand this is a business) however, it is devoid of any specific information about the teacher/lineage/qualifications/history - specifically the very information which someone with a bit of savvy would be looking for and the very same information which the unsuspecting wouldn't.

Given the emphasis on the kid's side of the business Lawson must at the very least hold a CRB check and some form of teaching qualification for him to gain insurance for both himself as a teacher and, if he owns a premises, insurance on that building. Again, nothing mentioned about him being an appropriately qualified and insured teacher - doesn't mean he doesn't hold those assets but why not further support the content of his website by stating so?

I find the whole "Master Lawson" persona difficult to swallow, for me it's an instant red flag.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 11:13am

Originally Posted by battheo

FTR, while I don't particularly like the word 'master' as a martial arts honorific full stop, it's a bit of a dead end argument in my opinion. I think the traditional response from that camp is that it comes from the word 'maestro' which simply means teacher.

Typically within credible martial systems the term "Shihan" is awarded at the discretionary of the authority, governing the art and it's teachers from godan (but often rokkudan) and above. These people however rarely refer to themselves as a master and don't desire that all and sundry within their dojo/organisation call them "master" - Sensei is the adequate honorific term to use. IMHO, Lawson encourages having his ego stroked

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 11:13am

First things first. Master is basically a westernized version of Sifu. There is a pretend standard we all adhere to. but there is no "real" criteria. To put it simply if I get a Masters degree in English it doesn't in any way actually mean I am a "Master" of the English language. It basically means I put in the time and effort, or maybe not, to "earn that title. You add the connotation through your own and societal beliefs. At least with schools there is a regulation board in Most countries.

There is no such thing for Martial Arts. Even the ones that do have governing bodies have their own internal politicking that leads to problems.

As to the 5 arts...meh.... I could legitimately teach 6 arts and exaggerate a few others. Then again I wouldn't because, I would feel it is false. Still, with no governing boar or regulations, I wouldn't be lying.

**battheo** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 3:53pm

Ok, so I sent an e mail titled 'FAO Master Ryan Lawson' to info@derbymartialarts.co.uk which is the e mail address they have listed on their FB page. As this is viewable by anyone, I have no problem posting their address here. The content of the e mail was as follows:

'Good evening Master Lawson, I hope this e mail finds you well.

I'm contacting you as an interested party concerning your martial arts background. I notice that you are listed as the chief instructor of Derby Martial Arts, a school which seems to offer a number of martial arts training options.

Despite examining your website, I couldn't seem to find a list of your credentials (I should add that I am far from internet savvy, so if I missed this section of your site, I apologise in advance. In that instance, please could you send me directions?)

I have heard that you hold numerous blackbelts across a couple of disciplines (3rd dan Karate, 1st dan Kickboxing and 1st dan Brazilian Jujitsu were mentioned) as well as an instructors license in Muay Thai. If that's correct, I applaud your discipline and ability! However, I do realise that resumes can suffer from 'chinese whispers', especially in the martial arts, so I was hoping you could clarify your rankings for me and elucidate your training background?

For the record, I have studied Chinese Martial arts in the past, but do not consider myself any kind of expert.

All the best and thanks for your time,

Theo.'

If Mr Lawson replies, I shall invite him to Bullshido. If he asks any questions concerning the nature of my enquiry (which I'm sure he will at some point) I will answer them honestly. In addition, unless he specifically requests otherwise, our entire correspondence will be reproduced here. On the off chance he does object, I will attempt to paraphrase his responses and edit out any private / sensitive details.

**battheo** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 4:01pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

First things first. Master is basically a westernized version of Sifu. There is a pretend standard we all adhere to. but there is no "real" criteria. To put it simply if I get a Masters degree in English it doesn't in any way actually mean I am a "Master" of the English language. It basically means I put in the time and effort, or maybe not, to "earn that title. You add the connotation through your own and societal beliefs. At least with schools there is a regulation board in Most countries.

There is no such thing for Martial Arts. Even the ones that do have governing bodies have their own internal politicking that leads to problems.

As to the 5 arts...meh.... I could legitimately teach 6 arts and exaggerate a few others. Then again I wouldn't because, I would feel it is false. Still, with no governing boar or regulations, I wouldn't be lying.

This is exactly why I chose not to address the 'Master' situation. While some of us might find it a distasteful or meaningless title, it's not explicitly wrong to refer to yourself as a 'Master' of anything. It's not a strictly regulated term with a clearly defined meaning. I'd rather pursue the facts (do you have a blackbelt in the following arts, and if so, who awarded them to you and when) than argue over shades of grey for 10 pages. That's not to say I disagree with Rock Apes sentiments though.

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 8/04/2011 1:26am

Originally Posted by psmithson

Black belt in BJJ (Would not say from who)

Did he specifically say "*Brazilian* Jiu Jitsu"? or did he say "Jiu Jitsu"?

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 8/04/2011 1:40am

This is not related to the martial arts end of it, but I've always found it a little telling in other investigations when this happens.

On their web site, they make heavy use of stock photos. Specifically, here is one of a child punching:

Right-clicking and choosing "View Image" reveals there is a watermark in the middle and around the border of the image.

All of the photos on the site have this same watermark.

The photos come from dreamstime.com, a stock photography site. Here is the original child punching:

http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-fr...e-image8631088

which, if you create an account, will let you click on "Click for comp image". That gives you the fully watermarked image posted on the Derby Martial Arts site. Purchasing the photos removes all watermarks.

It appears that Derby Martial Art's web site is using the stock photos without purchasing the right to use them.

**slideyfoot** · Posted On: 8/04/2011 6:45am

Originally Posted by psmithson

When I asked about the BJJ I said 'is it Gracie Barra?' He refused to answer this question and told me he had to go as his baby was crying, I said I would call back later but he said no, 'I’ll e-mail you the info!'

The UK BJJ community is not large, so an English black belt is still big news, always appearing on the main UK BJJ forum, the aforementioned European Fight Network. I've never heard of this guy and there is no mention of him on the EFN.

I'd suggest you also start a thread in the BJJ police bit of the EFN, here.