1. #1

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    American Bushido-kai (ABKA) - I've waisted 25 yrs

    Hey,
    I've waisted 25 years of my life learning a style called American Bushido-kai. It's no wonder that the association (federation's) leader's brother is not associated with him. They teach a version of Shotokan unknown to anyone else and call it Kyokushin-Kai though we did not train like the kyokushin nor did we learn any kyokushin kata until we attained shodan rank. The founder and leader said he was 8 time wkc middleweight champion. The problem with that is that I have personally spoken with Jim Butin, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, and Kathy Long and they have never heard of this man. His name is Denny Holzbauer. He claims to be 7th Dan Seibukan Shotokan, 5th Dan Kyokushin, and Nidan in Kenpo. I've not seen one certificate of rank of his anywhere or have found any fighting record of his. He keeps changing the way we do kata. I've learned 5 different versions of heian kata under him and none of them are consistent with original. Not even jka. Shoot, if you want to look real at least use the jka videos. Not only that, all of the Bunkai of the forms are white belt Bunkai at best. Not to mention, since the became their "official" system, they rapidly started promoting less than average martial artists. How can someone start martial arts without having any experience in previous styles of fighting, make it to 5th degree renshi Sensei in 10-13 years? Really? 4 people have been promoted as such in the past 13 years. No one knows who we were outside of oklahoma and north Texas. They know us in the Philippines one of "mission" sanctions but not really mission work type schools and in the Philippines, the system is looked upon very negatively thanks the head of the Philippines part, Nell Austudillo. Who's ranked to 5th dan in ABKA since being shodan in 2009. The system isolates itself from other systems, bad mouthing the other styles' credibility. They strip black belt ranks from those that take a stand respectfully [not even disrespectfully]. The founder, Denny Holzbauer fights only those promoting to Shodan and by the time they are winded usually but he had never fought someone that he thought would challenge him. This man is polite on the outside, an incredible recruiter, but a micro-manager, not a leader always wanting to be a step above so that he can continue to be the only one people have to go to. You can't be a know it all. There's too much to know in one lifetime. You never arrive. He promoted himself to Judan, 10th Dan in ABKA. Shoot! He should've just called himself Soke and blew everyone away because he drank the fountain of youth being Matsumoto ' s instructor. ... I digress with my sarcasm. I am frustrated. Fortunately, my father was smarty enough to continue my training in our original style of Goju-Ryu founded by Sensei Chojun Miyagi. Not bull. I started Goju-Ryu under him with proof of direct line under Yamaguchi Sensei. I'm 7th generation of Yamaguchi Sensei under my dad, who learned under Chris Ledbetter, who learned under Sammy Stanford, who trained with Ted Soliday, who trained under Lou Angel, who trained under Peter Urban and Gogen "The Cat" Yamaguchi who trained under a student of Anichi Miyagi Sensei who trained under Chojun Miyagi. Unfortunately, i have found any record of Mr. Holzbauer's lineage that can be prooven nor have i seen any of his ranking certificates. He claims he had trained under Glenn Keeney in Seibukan shotokan. Glenn Keeney is kyokushin not Shotokan I had asked him about Mr. Holzbauer and Sensei Kenny had responded to me saying; I've trained lots of people but I don't remember this man.

  2. #2
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Hey there #name,

    Welcome to Bullshido.

    I see you have failed to include #links/evidence of #stuff you claim and claim other people claim.

    I also noticed you have not used the enter key to help break up the text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Time-waisted25 View Post
    Hey,
    I've waisted 25 years of my life learning a style called American Bushido-kai. It's no wonder that the association (federation's) leader's brother is not associated with him. They teach a version of Shotokan unknown to anyone else and call it Kyokushin-Kai though we did not train like the kyokushin nor did we learn any kyokushin kata until we attained shodan rank. The founder and leader said he was 8 time wkc middleweight champion.

    The problem with that is that I have personally spoken with Jim Butin, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, and Kathy Long and they have never heard of this man. His name is Denny Holzbauer. He claims to be 7th Dan Seibukan Shotokan, 5th Dan Kyokushin, and Nidan in Kenpo. I've not seen one certificate of rank of his anywhere or have found any fighting record of his. He keeps changing the way we do kata. I've learned 5 different versions of heian kata under him and none of them are consistent with original. Not even jka.

    Shoot, if you want to look real at least use the jka videos. Not only that, all of the Bunkai of the forms are white belt Bunkai at best. Not to mention, since the became their "official" system, they rapidly started promoting less than average martial artists. How can someone start martial arts without having any experience in previous styles of fighting, make it to 5th degree renshi Sensei in 10-13 years? Really? 4 people have been promoted as such in the past 13 years.

    No one knows who we were outside of oklahoma and north Texas. They know us in the Philippines one of "mission" sanctions but not really mission work type schools and in the Philippines, the system is looked upon very negatively thanks the head of the Philippines part, Nell Austudillo. Who's ranked to 5th dan in ABKA since being shodan in 2009. The system isolates itself from other systems, bad mouthing the other styles' credibility. They strip black belt ranks from those that take a stand respectfully [not even disrespectfully].

    The founder, Denny Holzbauer fights only those promoting to Shodan and by the time they are winded usually but he had never fought someone that he thought would challenge him. This man is polite on the outside, an incredible recruiter, but a micro-manager, not a leader always wanting to be a step above so that he can continue to be the only one people have to go to. You can't be a know it all. There's too much to know in one lifetime. You never arrive. He promoted himself to Judan, 10th Dan in ABKA. Shoot!

    He should've just called himself Soke and blew everyone away because he drank the fountain of youth being Matsumoto ' s instructor. ... I digress with my sarcasm. I am frustrated. Fortunately, my father was smarty enough to continue my training in our original style of Goju-Ryu founded by Sensei Chojun Miyagi. Not bull.

    I started Goju-Ryu under him with proof of direct line under Yamaguchi Sensei. I'm 7th generation of Yamaguchi Sensei under my dad, who learned under Chris Ledbetter, who learned under Sammy Stanford, who trained with Ted Soliday, who trained under Lou Angel, who trained under Peter Urban and Gogen "The Cat" Yamaguchi who trained under a student of Anichi Miyagi Sensei who trained under Chojun Miyagi. Unfortunately, i have found any record of Mr. Holzbauer's lineage that can be prooven nor have i seen any of his ranking certificates. He claims he had trained under Glenn Keeney in Seibukan shotokan. Glenn Keeney is kyokushin not Shotokan I had asked him about Mr. Holzbauer and Sensei Kenny had responded to me saying; I've trained lots of people but I don't remember this man.
    Context is important so you may want to introduce yourself and the general situation so that the many of us who have no idea what you are talking about can become slightly more engaged.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  3. #3

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    It won't let me post links just yet but you can Google Denny Holzbauer, ABKA, United Goju Karate Federation, Iogkf, American Bushido-kai Karate Association, Sammy Stanford (OK), Ted Soliday (tulsa, ok), Glen Keeney (Facebook and Google) , WKC (World Karate and Kickboxing Championships), Jim Butin, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, and Joe Lewis (RIP) and try to see if Denny Holzbauer is anywhere to found fighting and winning alongside these fine gentlemen and martial artists. If you find any proof that he did, in fact, win wkc along with these gentlemen, let me know please, because I've spent years trying to find it.

  4. #4

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, if I can suggest to you that your time in training and your time with people may not have been wasted. You may have gained a lot in those years, but it may not be as advertised. If you can see the positives you experienced, and enjoy the better relationships you had, your understanding of the time may change.

    Yes, you may have been misled (I don't know, I wasn't there), but along the way you may have gained some great positives.

  5. #5
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    I was trying to find a way to allow you to post links but it looks like you will just have to make a few useful posts around the forum and gain the abilities to post links.

    Well http://newsok.com/article/2054227

    Denny Holzbauer,four times world champion in karate, is the new youth minister at the Surrey Hills Baptist Church.

    Denny's first Sunday on the job was Jan. 8. He has great plans for the youth group at Surrey, one of which is a karate school on Thursday nights, from 6:30 to 8:00.

    Karate would seem like an unusual avocation for a minister, but Denny says it has opened many doors for him to minister to youth.

    He has been speaking for Fellowship of Christian Atheletes for eight years, and at high school assemblies and youth retreats.

    His speaking has not been limited to the youth; he also speaks for adult functions such as the Full Gospel Business Men's Association.
    I don't see specifics, he seems like an honest God fearing man...

    This seems to be his Virtual Dojo with the claims you are claiming are incorrect there to see. You may want to screen shot and document his claims. They have a nasty habit of disappearing if proven to be over blown or contain mistakes.

    http://abkakarate.com/design/
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Time-waisted25 View Post
    Hey,
    I've waisted 25 years of my life learning a style called American Bushido-kai. It's no wonder that the association (federation's) leader's brother is not associated with him. They teach a version of Shotokan unknown to anyone else and call it Kyokushin-Kai though we did not train like the kyokushin nor did we learn any kyokushin kata until we attained shodan rank.
    Well in fairness their website seems to claim that it is their own system that evolved out of Shotokan.
    The ABKA karate system has evolved to incorporate many different forms of martial arts and the strengths they possess. Human history offers us a wealth of rich martial arts traditions, which we now practically incorporate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Time-waisted25 View Post
    The founder and leader said he was 8 time wkc middleweight champion. The problem with that is that I have personally spoken with Jim Butin, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, and Kathy Long and they have never heard of this man. His name is Denny Holzbauer.
    Well this news source http://newsok.com/article/2054227 reported in 1984
    Denny was the World Champion in karate in 1973, 1974, 1976 and 1983 and is currently WKC middleweight world champion. The competition is held in Japan every year.
    Don't know what sort of journalistic rigor they went through, as that seems to be a bit of a puff piece, but it at least gives you something to try and run down.

    Also you say he says 8 times champion while his website as of this writing claims 6.
    6 time W.K.C. World Champion

    Quote Originally Posted by Time-waisted25 View Post
    He claims to be 7th Dan Seibukan Shotokan, 5th Dan Kyokushin, and Nidan in Kenpo. I've not seen one certificate of rank of his anywhere or have found any fighting record of his.
    He only claims 2 belt ranks on his website at this writing
    7th Degree Black Belt (Sichidan)
    Sei Bu Kan Shoto-Kan

    5th Degree Black Belt (Godan)
    Kyokushin-Kai Kan
    Have you asked him to see or provide proof of his belt ranks? Have you asked him in email or some other verifiable form?
    As far as his fighting record, well his first title(according to the above news article) was 43yrs ago, and the other four mentioned there are more than 30yrs old. Not a lot of internet back then to record these things on. I guess if you wanted to track it down you would probably have to contact the organization or some WKC historian, and hope that they have records going back that far.


    Quote Originally Posted by Time-waisted25 View Post
    Unfortunately, i have found any record of Mr. Holzbauer's lineage that can be prooven nor have i seen any of his ranking certificates. He claims he had trained under Glenn Keeney in Seibukan shotokan. Glenn Keeney is kyokushin not Shotokan I had asked him about Mr. Holzbauer and Sensei Kenny had responded to me saying; I've trained lots of people but I don't remember this man.
    Was this perhaps an email correspondence? Is there a way you can provide proof of said correspondence? Also is he claiming that he got his rank from Mr. Keeney or that he trained with him/under him at some point? There is a major difference between the two. I can legitimately say that I trained under Steve Maxwell for a few months back in 1997. I cannot legitimately claim to ever having gotten a rank from him. Likewise I doubt that Steve Maxwell would remember me, as I was simply someone who passed briefly through his dojo.

    Ideally if you want this investigation to go forward you are going to have to do some leg work to clarify and verify some things.
    Last edited by Michael Tzadok; 8/22/2016 10:18am at . Reason: fixing html tag

  7. #7
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    ...
    Ideally if you want this investigation to go forward you are going to have to do some leg work to clarify and verify some things.
    That was all very helpful.
    I hope #name sends you flowers or a thank you note or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  8. #8
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By me - thread title edited to better reflect content

  9. #9

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who cares about lineage? So you have a black belt in some obscure style nobody has heard of? Does that make you a bad person? No. All that matters in the real world is whether or not you have the ability to fight. And if you don't plan to be a professional fighter, then does that really even matter? Did you enjoy some level of physical fitness? Did you make long-lasting friendships? Did you gain self-confidence? Anything else positive? If so, it was not a waste of 25 years even if you can't fight your way out of a paper bag.

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