Hojo Undo/ Traditional vs Modern Techniques

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 11:13am

If you have studied certain forms of traditional karate, you have probably been exposed or used various implements of hojo undo like the chishi, nigiri game, etc. I think they still have application in training. However, the world of strength and conditioning has evolved so much in the past forty or so years. Yet there remain the closed minded traditionalists who refuse to train with modern devices like barbells, sandbags, kettlebells, etc. etc. There is also the bodyweight only crowd that seem to religiously devoted to the point that it is sacrilegious to pick up iron. Should we train with what works?

**Lindz** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 12:56pm

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

Should we train with what works?

Um yes. Is this a trick question? Really you want to train what works best. Old school methods do work. But some don't work as well as modern methods.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 1:07pm

Not last long here, I predict, you will.

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 2:08pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

Um yes. Is this a trick question? Really you want to train what works best. Old school methods do work. But some don't work as well as modern methods.

No trick question. I just don't get people who are stuck on just one way of training, like what I call the body weight cult. I use a lot of classic weight lifting (including Olympic moves), traditional hojo undo and I also train with sandbags, kettlebells and a TRX and some other body weight type training. In addition, I have found great value in yoga. I just come across a lot of people who are not in favor of traditional weight training and then those who only think you should do traditional hojo undo types stuff. Then there is the anti-TRX crowd. I just don't understand why people treat exercise methods like religious sects.

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 2:41pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Not last long here, I predict, you will.

Are you going to tell me that this board is speak in line with everyone or get kicked off? If that is the case, it is kind of in conflict with what I thought this board was about.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 2:46pm

The summer holidays are over in a few weeks.

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 8:34am

From a novelty standpoint I loved the old school strength training **** and even made a makeshift rock-on-a-stick-thing that they use a lot when I did **** Goju and while I've switched my routine (and style) since then, if I had the option to do it maybe once a week or something of that nature to break up the repetitiveness of regular weights and training.

And if there's any more experienced and educated physical fitness gurus reading this thread, which of these oldschool methods have the most merit (and are there any that are just plain to be avoided?)

Just to clarify we're talking **** like this

right? (Also, howto embed again?)

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 1:48pm

Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese

From a novelty standpoint I loved the old school strength training **** and even made a makeshift rock-on-a-stick-thing that they use a lot when I did **** Goju and while I've switched my routine (and style) since then, if I had the option to do it maybe once a week or something of that nature to break up the repetitiveness of regular weights and training.

And if there's any more experienced and educated physical fitness gurus reading this thread, which of these oldschool methods have the most merit (and are there any that are just plain to be avoided?)

Just to clarify we're talking **** like this

right? (Also, howto embed again?)

Its all about resistance. Implements of hojo undo will improve you, up until the point your body adapts to them. You must always increase the load either in length of time or weight, or you start standing still. If you are looking to increase grip strength, kami jars will work, but you need to fill them up with more and more sand to make them heavier and heavier. The chishi can work not only your grip strength, but also your range of motion and can be used to develop more explosiveness like Olympic lifting.

**Cold_Skin** · Posted On: 8/15/2011 2:46pm

If you're looking to get jacked, Hojo Undo isn't really for you. Like the OP posted, a lot of it isn't meant to jack up arm strength, just to work on various muscles that assist with technique. Such as tossing the Chishi, catching it not only works grip and control, but the speed at which you can close your fist from an open position, as not all fights are in the ring and start with both fighters at the ready. Working control also helps so you can maintain good form while your punching, instead of waling your arms around. Things like these are reason Hojo Undo is good training. But I do suggest adding weights or something if you're looking for pure strength.

11yr Goju Ryu Karateka

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 8/16/2011 11:24am

Hi Cold_Skin, welcome (I guess) to Bullshido. It looks like to me Hojo Undo looks kinda like early sort of weight lifting techniques. Which makes sense, as a whole-body (what's that phrase? Compo-whatis something... where you use a bunch of different muscle in coordination) exercises which you need and then add things that help with your martial arts training. I think any form of lifting heavy objects tends to "make you look jacked" in that it makes you stronger and, combined with reduced weight you can gain that kind of look.

Such as tossing the Chishi, catching it not only works grip and control, but the speed at which you can close your fist from an open position

Not sure what that drill is, exactly, but throwing and catching heavy things does seem like a good way to practice grip strength, especially for grabbing and jerking something (NOTE: no clue about what I'm talking about) abruptly. I could see it's application in Judo or other Gi sports especially.

Working control also helps so you can maintain good form while your punching

I know some of the motions of the Hojo Undo are the same as the punch, right?

I read somewhere (when I was starting Stronglifts) that things like barbell and dumb-bells are better than machines because you must also work the smaller stabilizing muscles that are necessary for use in real-world lifting, instead of making big glamour muscles without practical strength.

As a side note: Where did you study Goju and what "branch" (I guess) are you? I used to do a form of Maebukan (sp?) a while back (which is when I first came into contact with this stuff).