Deep Half Guard in MMA.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 5:36am

Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli

I think Coach Josh summed the issue up as far as reasonable minds go. Pointy Shin, my point is not that "you have to be good at Jiu jitsu to use it in mma." My point is that if you have an enormous technical advantage over an opponent you can do things you wouldn't try against an opponent on an equal level...like Randy Couture shooting from WAAAY on the outside against James Toney. Or Anderson dropping his hands and doing the electric mo town shuffle against rich Franklin.

Big Nog has an enormous technical advantage over Werdum? Fabricio is bigger and the more credentialed grappler by quite a long way. Who else has been out-grappling Antonio Silva or Dan Henderson that makes you imagine they're getting the jiu jitsu equivalent of the Ali shuffle?

Originally Posted by SifuJason

What he said.

What does this mean, exactly? You don't generally seek bottom position at all in MMA. However, given that bottom position has happened I'd prefer to be in deep half than closed guard, because deep half means that in about five seconds I'll either be on top or back on my feet.

Since the techniques used in deep half are just coming to the main stream it will not be long before the position is recognized by the top guy and they will shut it down and start beating the bottom guys head into the ground.

I don't think you can effectively GnP a guy in deep half, unless you can tell me different? You have to switch position to shut it down. I'm not claiming it's magic, just that it's valid technique that's worth learning and using.

Put it this way, bottom half-guard in MMA consists, for most fighters, of losing the battle for the under-hook and getting flattened out and beaten on. Deep half is a pretty awesome solution for that problem, once you get good at it.

**Super8astard** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 12:53pm

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

Put it this way, bottom half-guard in MMA consists, for most fighters, of losing the battle for the under-hook and getting flattened out and beaten on. Deep half is a pretty awesome solution for that problem, once you get good at it.

It would be a short term answer, but it would definately shake up the stagnant grappling in mma. I hope people do start utilizing deep half, high risk fighters are always more entertaining. The guys who always get top position always seem to have the same goal of getting a full mount. People ignore other advantageous positions trying to get there, even the elite wrestlers do this. Once the the bottom players start varying their technique the top guys will have to as well.

At any rate, you're right, it should be used more often.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 7:18pm

[QUOTE=PointyShinyBurn;2584657]Big Nog has an enormous technical advantage over Werdum? Fabricio is bigger and the more credentialed grappler by quite a long way. Who else has been out-grappling Antonio Silva or Dan Henderson that makes you imagine they're getting the jiu jitsu equivalent of the Ali [\QUOTE ]

I meant that Werdum is a more accomplished and technical grappler than Big Foot, from what i remember Nog vs Fabricio was conducted mainly on the feet. And for sure little Nog h as better Jiu jitsu credentials than Brilz. Likewise, when I think of high level bjj in mma, Dan "one submission due to strikes in his whole career" is not the first name that comes to mind.
I can make most of the same arguments you are using to show that the crescent kick is a great mma technique, it's been used in the ufc by Carlos condit and Anderson silva, kikuta is lighting people up with it in Japan, and Andy hug used it a lot in k1. And i bet you can't find any footage of someone being knocked out trying it.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 7:36pm

Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli

from what i remember Nog vs Fabricio was conducted mainly on the feet.

You could try watching the actual fight before commenting on it? Nog sweeps Werdum from deep half repeatedly.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 8/03/2011 7:41pm

I think i have the dvd with that fight on it somewhere...I will get back to you after I re watch it.

**Cowardly Lurker** · Posted On: 9/21/2011 5:28pm

UFC 132, Jeff Hougland caught Donny Walker with a very slick deep half sweep. While not a high profile fight, it's another example of deep half used in the UFC. I remember Rogan commenting on it when it happened, although I can't remember now which round it was in. I think Round 2.

This was the first undercard bout on the card, shown at the very end of the PPV after the main event.

**v1y** · Posted On: 9/23/2011 9:45am

Alright I'm the resident MMA snob. Examples of deep half guard that come to mind immediately:

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs Pawel Nastula, Barnett
Rogerio Nogueira vs Shogun, Mezger, and as mentioned Brilz
Alan Belcher vs Yoshihiro Akiyama
Stephan Bonnar vs Mike Nickels
Werdum vs Antonio Silva
Hougland vs Walker
GSP vs Fitch (guess this one is debatable: http://i39.tinypic.com/197b5j.gif)
Norman Paraisy vs James Hammortree

http://www.ultimatefighter.com/fight...mes-hammortree It's actually a really solid fight