I want to know a bit about Karate.

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/29/2011 10:10am

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

As others have suggested, what you need to know about Karate is how nebulous a term it has become...and you need to be aware of the quality-control issues which come with that lack of single definition.

Forget the word "Karate". It's come to cover so many things--both good and bad--that it's nearly meaningless now in any practical sense.

Go to a dojo. Watch what they do, participate to the extent you are allowed without signing one, and decide for yourself which one most closely suits your training goals (you have nailed down exactly what it is you want to accomplish--right?--otherwise, on what basis are you going to choose a dojo/school/gym/style/whatever?).

I somewhat agree with what you are saying. However, I think anyone interested in karate should understand what the term "karate" actually supposed to refer to. I suggest the book "okinawan Karate" by Mark Bishop. Reading it will most likely expose you to what karate tryuly is. You may also google Patrick McCarthy and read some of his work. I was fortunate enough to have walked into the right school for me out dumb luck way back when and have grown to appreciate my system and school more and more with each passing year.

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 7/29/2011 10:18am

At which schools are you looking?

There has been a couple of threads on Bullshido about "karate in Arizona" and was wondering if you looked at them.

Bear in mind, that Trias came to Arizona, post-war, and brought his Shorin-ryu with him and, subsequently, the state became a hotbed of Shorin-ryu. In the ensuing years the schools have become of greatly varying qualities.......

**IMightBeWrong** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 2:08am

I was looking mostly at this place:

http://www.hiokidojo.com/

Not the fanciest site, but I've seen worse sites for great schools before.

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 3:56am

I can't find any name of the style or federation on that site to which they belong. That's something that I don't like.

If I have to use the kumite clip of 1996 (it's a classic) as a referance, I would go to the school that trained the Afro-American.

Like mon ami Vieux already said, 'Karate' is just a generic name for a (mostly) fist-foot way of fighting.

What are your goals, that you want to have from training 'karate'? What do you want to bring over from 'karate' to your previous MA background?

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 4:11am

Originally Posted by Lindz

Jean Frenette, Bercy 1990
It brings back some old memories since I was there as a 14 year old kid. Good times.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 10:20am

Originally Posted by zaohu

I was looking mostly at this place:

http://www.hiokidojo.com/

Not the fanciest site, but I've seen worse sites for great schools before.

I know this school. Its a Kyokushin school. I had competed against several students from there as a teen. They produce some good fighters back then. If they have been keeping up the trend then I would recommend going to this school.

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 10:22am

Originally Posted by zaohu

I was looking mostly at this place:

http://www.hiokidojo.com/

Not the fanciest site, but I've seen worse sites for great schools before.

If memory serves from the other threads, that was one of the main schools being recommended when a poster was asking for Kyokushin in Phoenix.

Have you contacted them about trying out a class? Let us know how the intro class goes.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 2:22pm

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

I somewhat agree with what you are saying. However, I think anyone interested in karate should understand what the term "karate" actually supposed to refer to.

They can look up the history of the term. When it went from whatever Chinese name was on offer to Ryukyu town-based terms such as Naha-Te, the basis of Shorei.

I suggest the book "okinawan Karate" by Mark Bishop.

One presumes this author makes clear that Okinawans didn't term their MAs "Kara-Te"...either via the "China-Hand" kanji or via the later "Empty-Hand" kanji, as this is Japanese, not Okinawan.

Reading it will most likely expose you to what karate tryuly is.

Not to nitpick, but it is questionable whether one can be exposed to what a martial art "truly is" merely by reading about it. However, interesting things can be learned.

You may also google Patrick McCarthy and read some of his work.

Indeed, for the book-oriented, some of his material isn't bad.

I was fortunate enough to have walked into the right school for me out dumb luck way back when and have grown to appreciate my system and school more and more with each passing year.

I have gone a different route: via judo, wrestling, daido-juku (I know, they don't call it that anymore) and finally--getting a bit long in the tooth--relaxing my old bones into Shotokan as taught by the IKA's number-two, on Toronto's Danforth Avenue. His Judo and Sumo background, and inclusion of full-contact, makes it a good place for someone my age to keep up whatever little skills he may have gained previously.

Originally, a kata-hater, I have come to appreciate the way the bunkai include and combine techniques I used in my previous MAs. Very useful in my line of work.

EDIT: Mind you, I've only practised Karate since 1978, so there is a fair bit more to be learned.

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 2:50pm

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

They can look up the history of the term. When it went from whatever Chinese name was on offer to Ryukyu town-based terms such as Naha-Te, the basis of Shorei.

One presumes this author makes clear that Okinawans didn't term their MAs "Kara-Te"...either via the "China-Hand" kanji or via the later "Empty-Hand" kanji, as this is Japanese, not Okinawan.

Not to nitpick, but it is questionable whether one can be exposed to what a martial art "truly is" merely by reading about it. However, interesting things can be learned.

Indeed, for the book-oriented, some of his material isn't bad.

I have gone a different route: via judo, wrestling, daido-juku (I know, they don't call it that anymore) and finally--getting a bit long in the tooth--relaxing my old bones into Shotokan as taught by the IKA's number-two, on Toronto's Danforth Avenue. His Judo and Sumo background, and inclusion of full-contact, makes it a good place for someone my age to keep up whatever little skills he may have gained previously.

Originally, a kata-hater, I have come to appreciate the way the bunkai include and combine techniques I used in my previous MAs. Very useful in my line of work.

EDIT: Mind you, I've only practised Karate since 1978, so there is a fair bit more to be learned.

I probably would have read the book before making such comments. If you have taken judo to some extent, kata should have deeper meaning to you than before taking judo.

**Eddie Hardon** · Posted On: 7/30/2011 4:09pm

Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs

Jean Frenette, Bercy 1990
It brings back some old memories since I was there as a 14 year old kid. Good times.

I loved that but then he's Jean Frenette and I'm not - few are...

Great stuff and I enjoyed his contribution to that Canadien lady who went to Okinawa and M. Frenette was on hand to help and guide. An enjoyable episode.

Very minor interjection - cos I know so little compared to you true Karateka (looking at you Vieux). My understanding is:
- Funakoshi re-modelled his Karate to suit the Japanese temprament. Group activity, Group Thinking and damn good preparation for military service...and we know where that led.
- Oyama and others had learned Shotokan under Funakoshi and took it to Korea. As Native Koreans, they then decided to koreanise...odd that this seems to be overlooked. So much for the ?Thousand years of history.

Er, thassit. I shall now shut up and accept Correction and hope to Learn. Cheers.