Military/Police Martial Arts

**kracker** · Posted On: 7/23/2011 1:42pm

How seriously do cops and soldiers generally train in hand to hand self-defense at the academy/basic training? In general, is it enough for someone who doesn't also train in his spare time to be able to beat up someone bigger (but untrained) in a fight without weapons?

***TaeBo_Master*** · Posted On: 7/23/2011 1:52pm

They vary tremendously depending on where you're learning them. In general though, the military is primarily concerned with technical skills and weapons use. They do train H2H, and yes it's probably enough to be able to defeat an otherwise untrained opponent. But it's nowhere near the training that a professional fighter receives. Military training is generally directed toward a specific purpose, winning in combat on the battlefield. H2H combat is a very small part of this. I train Judo at an army base currently, and I've asked a lot of the soldiers there this question. The answer that I usually get is that it's very different from base to base. Some places have very minimal H2H training, others have a lot of options available.

For the police, I would imagine that it's a similar story. They train with a goal in mind. Namely, control and restraint. Sure, police officers probably have additional training available to them. But my guess is that the H2H taught at the police academy doesn't have much to do with busting faces or kicking legs. It's most likely simple techniques directed at their primary aim.

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 7/23/2011 1:55pm

Originally Posted by kracker

How seriously do cops and soldiers generally train in hand to hand self-defense at the academy/basic training? In general, is it enough for someone who doesn't also train in his spare time to be able to beat up someone bigger (but untrained) in a fight without weapons?

From what little i've seen of it, and what I've heard from LEO's. The techniques they work on for h2h are simply for creating space and allowing them to draw their sidearm. Also if i'm not mistaken it's quite reckless for an LEO to approach a violent offender alone, and unarmed. My instructor was a police officer in California and he said he got chewed out hardcore for disarming a guy who attacked him with a hatchet, because he went in the situation alone.

**Evergrey** · Posted On: 7/23/2011 6:22pm

The stock training for h2h in California is woefully insufficient, and as a result when an officer ends up in a situation that requires it, things can get pretty scary for them. :/

**November** · Posted On: 7/23/2011 11:29pm

Typically, they train poorly. I'm not aware of any military or police organization in the US that requires more than a week of training. My experience with SF and Infantry has them mostly going to MMA schools that teach BJJ and Muay Thai and IIRC the army combatives has competitions that incorporate BJJ rules (my brother did a few and it sounded like it was a mix of boxing, wrestling and bjj rules).

**doofaloofa** · Posted On: 7/24/2011 2:55am

Unarmed police (UK and) and Guards in Republic of Ireland?
You have to have some stones to face off thugs with just a trunceon. You'd want a buddy to watch your back!

**ty5** · Posted On: 7/24/2011 7:34am

The police who train at the Judo club I go to don't seem to have get much in the way of training, as that is one of the main reasons why they do Judo.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 7/24/2011 8:12am

I am a Modern Army Combatives instructor.
In the Army it depends on where you are at. I am at Fort Bragg, home of the Airborne and Special Operations. There is a lot of type A personalities here so there is a higher degree of training. There are many military and civilian opportunities to train. This is different from other places where this training is "done" but not really focused on. Army standard is for every soldier to be Level 1 put more important is for them to be able to do their jobs and handle their weapon systems. I do take the training seriously because I have had soldiers who used what they have learned form me in combat. However I have had many more use the training on shooting, comms, and convoy ops.

**Vorpal** · Posted On: 7/24/2011 11:48am

Most police officers receive a smattering of questionably effective defensive tactics (HTH) training during their academy time. Some never do any additional training at all and rely on force of numbers/taser/baton/pepperspray/firearm/crappling for any confrontation they find themselves in. Some are just bigger/stronger/more aggressive than the average perp and get by on that. A much smaller percentage actively trains some variety of effective martial sport (BJJ/boxing/Judo/MT/MMA). I fall firmly in between the last two categories 6'3", 240lbs and try to always be training in something, injuries permitting.

**scipio** · Posted On: 7/24/2011 2:14pm

From my own experience (I'm an ex-UK cop) - the self defence training was god awful. There was session a month where you learnt some basic throws/holds probably dirived fron judo but there was really no regular follow up or training. A lot of us who were interested/concerned ended up doing a MA in our spare time. I did aikdo and a little ju-jitsu (largely due to the fact that I thought that at the time applying wrist locks to people was more politically correct than just hitting them). Wrong wrong wrong.

There was (I remember) an official police MA sylabus called "taijitsu" - could be wrong on the spelling, but no one seemed to know what it was.

I reality "on the streets", most of the fights I got into, I was sober, they were drunk and most of the time there were more than one of us cops so it got a bit one sided plus we had big sticks.

Aikido wrist locks work well if you are a cop, you go in four to one, smack them with a stick (more than once) and then apply a wrist lock when they are on the floor - who says aikido doesn't work!