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  1. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2012 5:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    Yes, this is old, but I wanted to get that damn "Y U No" guy off my header. I wasn't aware of this. In fact, I showed some guys in AK daki wakare as one of those "just in case" throws:



    I'll be damned if one of our guys didn't have the perfect opportunity for it, and went to hit it. Unfortunately, he didn't have enough momentum to get his opponent all the way over. No fouls were called though. Now I'm curious as to whether or not this was just the referee letting it go as it didn't work.

    Hope I didn't derail this old thread too much. But it lit the little bulb over my head.
    That is not a scoring throw under current judo rules. Blue is in ne waza.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. judoka_uk is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2012 6:49pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I also realized that I now need a right side throw in addition to lapel-side sasae--maybe ippon seoi nage or STKG.
    You know I've come to believe there's a spectrum. Running from solely ashiwaza throught to solely koshiwaza.

    The centre ground of that spectrum are Uchi mata on the ashi waza side and Seoi nage on the Koshi waza side. Tai otoshi lies in the middle. Ashi waza being on the right and Koshiwaza being on the left.

    Generally you will notice that Judoka tend towards one end of the spectrum or other. If you tend towards the right you'll have O soto, O uchi and Uchi mata as your main throws. If you tend to the left you'll have Seoi nage, Ko uchi and Sode as your main throws.

    If you're centre right you'll have an O soto, O/Ko uchi, Uchi mata, Tai otoshi and Ippon Seoi. If you're centre left you'll have a Ko uchi, Uchi Mata, Seoi nage, Tai otoshi and a Sode.

    There's obviously exceptions and anomalies to this grand scheme, but I think the general point remains.

    If you're tokui tokuiwaza is Uchi mata then don't go for a Sode, because you're probably a bit too centre right for it. If your tokui tokuiwaza is Tai otoshi then go for a Sode, because you're probably centre centre. If you get where I'm going with this contorted metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muerteds View Post
    Yes, this is old, but I wanted to get that damn "Y U No" guy off my header. I wasn't aware of this. In fact, I showed some guys in AK daki wakare as one of those "just in case" throws:

    As Ben said, both hands down so already in newaza. Under the current rules its merely a skilful turnover and scores nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    LOL, yeah, welcome to real life. My senior students are getting to experience that now. They walk in in their dirty work clothes after doing skilled labor all day (the single young woman included), and start to really understand the meaning of "sucking it up".
    Having an hour or so's rest on a train from London then a half hour drive to turn up half way through the session and bowl up fresh to randori is ideal, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    There is a strong arguement for doing the most productive randori without a lot of tiring drilling before hand. that will simulate shiai conditions more accurately for sure, at least in terms of energy levels.
    There's definitely a place for trying to replicate shiai conditions with adequate rest.

    However, of course, as you know the foundation of effective shiai is extensive and well conducted drilling. So no one who reads this should think that you can abandon uchikomi for randori and still achieve success.
  3. Muerteds is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2012 9:24pm


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR
    That is not a scoring throw under current judo rules. Blue is in ne waza.
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk
    As Ben said, both hands down so already in newaza. Under the current rules its merely a skilful turnover and scores nothing.
    Gotcha. As it was, he didn't manage to sink a choke, so they stood them up fairly quickly, as is the habit in judo. Thanks for the clarification.
  4. Muerteds is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2012 9:25pm


     Style: Itinerant Wanderer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Double post.
    Last edited by Muerteds; 5/24/2012 9:30pm at . Reason: Fixed.
  5. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2012 4:16am


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I scored multiple times with Harai Goshi yesterday!

    That's about as magical as it gets for me, being a Judo noob.

    It's starting to come together!

    Now I do have this problem when I go for Harai Goshi and someone moves to the side and puts his hips in to counter with O Goshi.

    Should I go for Tani Otoshi then? I don't use it because of what you guys said about it. But I think I can pull it off nicely.
  6. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2012 4:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    There's definitely a place for trying to replicate shiai conditions with adequate rest.

    However, of course, as you know the foundation of effective shiai is extensive and well conducted drilling. So no one who reads this should think that you can abandon uchikomi for randori and still achieve success.
    Of course, just doing randori for training ends up being survival of the fittest, particularly for beginners.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2012 4:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    I scored multiple times with Harai Goshi yesterday!

    That's about as magical as it gets for me, being a Judo noob.

    It's starting to come together!

    Now I do have this problem when I go for Harai Goshi and someone moves to the side and puts his hips in to counter with O Goshi.

    Should I go for Tani Otoshi then? I don't use it because of what you guys said about it. But I think I can pull it off nicely.
    If you really know how to do Tani Otoshi correctly, it should be OK. Most people don't, so I'd be very careful about it if I were you. Focus more on how to correct your Harai Goshi would probably be more productive.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2012 6:16am


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    If you really know how to do Tani Otoshi correctly, it should be OK. Most people don't, so I'd be very careful about it if I were you. Focus more on how to correct your Harai Goshi would probably be more productive.
    Someone busted my knee a couple of months ago with Tani Otoshi, I'm very careful when I do it, but I figured it's about time I faced my fears.
  9. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2012 10:51am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    You know I've come to believe there's a spectrum. Running from solely ashiwaza throught to solely koshiwaza.

    The centre ground of that spectrum are Uchi mata on the ashi waza side and Seoi nage on the Koshi waza side. Tai otoshi lies in the middle. Ashi waza being on the right and Koshiwaza being on the left.

    Generally you will notice that Judoka tend towards one end of the spectrum or other. If you tend towards the right you'll have O soto, O uchi and Uchi mata as your main throws. If you tend to the left you'll have Seoi nage, Ko uchi and Sode as your main throws.

    If you're centre right you'll have an O soto, O/Ko uchi, Uchi mata, Tai otoshi and Ippon Seoi. If you're centre left you'll have a Ko uchi, Uchi Mata, Seoi nage, Tai otoshi and a Sode.

    There's obviously exceptions and anomalies to this grand scheme, but I think the general point remains.

    If you're tokui tokuiwaza is Uchi mata then don't go for a Sode, because you're probably a bit too centre right for it. If your tokui tokuiwaza is Tai otoshi then go for a Sode, because you're probably centre centre. If you get where I'm going with this contorted metaphor.

    Tai otoshi has definitely settled in as my tokui waza--it's the one throw I can do with confidence moving forward, back, to the side throwing to the side, in a circle to the side, etc. from a variety of grips and in combination with ashi waza. I still can't throw anyone to the front while moving to the side or in a circle, although I know how. That's hard. Typically, I throw it from ouchi or just 2-3 tai otoshi in a row (first unbalance, second-third throws).

    I understand what you're saying, but it's a bit different playing left handed--I'm in kenka yotsu a lot. That typically means an off-center to extreme stance and stiff-arms from less skilled opponents (and even some black belts). Typical throws are ko soto, ouchi, uchi mata and tai otoshi. Things like ko uchi and osoto are harder simply because of the distance to the far foot. Typically I have to lead with a sasae-like motion to get close enough. Playing other lefties is weird, but I have a lot of tools against them. It's kenka yotsu where a right handed throw would be particularly useful for me-- a right seoi, harai, under grip seoi/osoto, makikomi, etc. Sode might be good simply because its the same grip as my sasae.

    At any rate, I talked to my coach, and he's teaching me tomoe nage/yoko tomoe nage. It works as a substitute for a right handed throw (for now), the foot work is more natural and I can throw it with either leg.
  10. Angryman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2012 2:25pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: judo, jiu jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, not sure if anyone will read this, but have to give it a go....

    setting the stage...
    About a year ago, I had just come back from having reconstructive surgery (labrium torn, broken clavicle) and had only been back to work full duty for a week or two. There was a decent fight at a local drinking establishment that I was sent to....

    the action...
    I pull up and seen the prototypical large ring of onlookers (imagine high school). As I stop the crowd parts and I see the combatants on the ground. One guy is trying to get away from his opponent and is pulling back. The other fellow continues attacking and throws a punch as I get out of my car.

    Out of habit I jumped out of my car and grabbed my flashlight with my right hand and immediately ran at the attacker giving very loud verbal commands (very loud, should have been a drill instructor). The D-bag turned to look at my as I closed the distance with him and for the rest was magic...

    Somehow, I throw the guy (I'm 160 lbs soaking wet, this guy had me by at least 50-60 lbs) with Osoto Gari and I actually did it the way I had practiced before I was sidelined with a broken shoulder. I grabbed his outstretched right hand with my left. I off-balanced him by continuing my momentum towards his right pulling him that direction. Remember I had my flashlight in my right hand... I used the inner portion of my right forearm to add to the velocity of the throw by striking him in the brachial plexus region. I finished by getting the essential three feet in a row and completed with the reap. It was over so fast I hardly knew what had happened. He was completely upended and I had excellent arm control, even still had my flashlight in my hand.

    The bonus (maybe) was that the large crowd was still gathered and I had a loud cheer!

    It was the most effortless throw I've ever done, and before that point it wasn't one that I could do with confidence. However, it is a great throw because it is simple. I'm not that accomplished and I've never been in a competition, but that was no ****, real world application of Judo, which is exactly how my club always trained. Works with gi or no-gi.

    Another lesson I have passed on to some fellows, once you start the maneuver (whatever it may be), even if it's not perfect (especially on the street), intensity matters, do it like you mean it!
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