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  1. #21
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pretty sure its always been legal to throw someone if they fall to one or both knees and are still gripped up with their opponent. However, if they fall to one or both knees and put one or more hands on the mat you can't throw them, unless of course the ref lets it run and then they regrip and attempt to stand up, then you can throw.

    Check with Ben though, because he's a ref and I'm not.

  2. #22

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, Ben. What is your opinion of George Weers?

  3. #23

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This isn't worth starting a new thread over, but I had interesting experience at Judo the other night. I was visiting a high level club that I rarely train at--as in there were ~12 black belts and 2 kyu ranked people, including me. I just had one of those magic nights where everything worked--I repeatedly threw black belts for clean ippons (including the best "skipping" tomoe nage I've ever done, etc.) and was only thrown a couple of times. And I've been trying to figure out why. It was weird. If I could play like that all the time, I'd have my black belt already.

    Part of it was physical--I'm usually exhausted by the time I get to Judo after work and I'm tired by the time I start tachi waza. At my home club we do at least 30 minutes of hard ne waza before we start tachi waza randori. We just did a little ne waza drilling and then went into tachi waza. This place is also air conditioned, which is a great help.

    Some of the guys also obviously didn't like playing a lefty uchi mata/tai otoshi player at all--and they didn't know me or what I do. But the other thing I realized is that, in some ways, my style is seemingly better for playing good judo players off of motion than playing less skilled, strong, stiff-arming zombies who don't move. I was just very relaxed and my Judo just happened without too much thought--including second and third effort throws. I also realized that I now need a right side throw in addition to lapel-side sasae--maybe ippon seoi nage or STKG.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    This isn't worth starting a new thread over, but I had interesting experience at Judo the other night. I was visiting a high level club that I rarely train at--as in there were ~12 black belts and 2 kyu ranked people, including me. I just had one of those magic nights where everything worked--I repeatedly threw black belts for clean ippons (including the best "skipping" tomoe nage I've ever done, etc.) and was only thrown a couple of times. And I've been trying to figure out why. It was weird. If I could play like that all the time, I'd have my black belt already.

    Part of it was physical--I'm usually exhausted by the time I get to Judo after work and I'm tired by the time I start tachi waza. At my home club we do at least 30 minutes of hard ne waza before we start tachi waza randori. We just did a little ne waza drilling and then went into tachi waza. This place is also air conditioned, which is a great help.

    Some of the guys also obviously didn't like playing a lefty uchi mata/tai otoshi player at all--and they didn't know me or what I do. But the other thing I realized is that, in some ways, my style is seemingly better for playing good judo players off of motion than playing less skilled, strong, stiff-arming zombies who don't move. I was just very relaxed and my Judo just happened without too much thought--including second and third effort throws. I also realized that I now need a right side throw in addition to lapel-side sasae--maybe ippon seoi nage or STKG.
    I'd guess the main issue was you were not tired. It makes a huge difference in your level of coordination. I've experienced the same thing myself, not that I was throwing around black belts or anything.

    And yes, you need a right throw from left grip for sure. STKA/HG/Ippon Seoi Nage or TKG would work.

    I'd work on the Ippon Seoi for sure, everyone should be able to do that well as an opposite side throw. Then STKA or HG for the ashi waza, if not also a Kosoto Gari/Gake, nidan entry type.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  5. #25

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well, im nowhere near as experienced as you guys, but a few months ago in one of our regular class shiai i was matched against a brown belt compatriot of mine. We both attempted throws and were pinging off of each other. i got smashed in the lip and pinned, but got out of it, suffice to say i thought i was soon going to be thrown within the next couple seconds.

    I pulled him around me in a circle as I tugged his sleeve, throwing my thigh across his for o-guruma. He did almost a complete 360 in the air and landed with perfect ukemi in front of me. I literally felt no effort doing that at all.

    And then I spent the next three months getting my ass kicked all the time as recompense from the Judo gods

  6. #26
    judoka_uk's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sometimes you just find you've hit a bit of form and go through a few sessions just launching everyone with ease. Comes and goes, at least that's been my experience.

    What Ben says about being tired is very true didn't appreciate how much difference coming to Judo after a days work vs coming to Judo after sitting about scratching your balls all day makes, until I left uni and started working.

  7. #27

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    Thanks. I do think being not tired and not hot (air conditioning!) helped tremendously. Fatigue masks fitness is a truism.

    I went to my regular class on Friday-- sweltering, hard warmup, hard ne waza-- and I was back to being a mere mortal. I'm certainly getting better --it's pretty common for me to throw lower level black belts now--but I didn't have the crisp entries and pretty technique I had Wednesday.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Pretty sure its always been legal to throw someone if they fall to one or both knees and are still gripped up with their opponent. However, if they fall to one or both knees and put one or more hands on the mat you can't throw them, unless of course the ref lets it run and then they regrip and attempt to stand up, then you can throw.

    Check with Ben though, because he's a ref and I'm not.
    Yes, this is old, but I wanted to get that damn "Y U No" guy off my header. I wasn't aware of this. In fact, I showed some guys in AK daki wakare as one of those "just in case" throws:



    I'll be damned if one of our guys didn't have the perfect opportunity for it, and went to hit it. Unfortunately, he didn't have enough momentum to get his opponent all the way over. No fouls were called though. Now I'm curious as to whether or not this was just the referee letting it go as it didn't work.

    Hope I didn't derail this old thread too much. But it lit the little bulb over my head.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Sometimes you just find you've hit a bit of form and go through a few sessions just launching everyone with ease. Comes and goes, at least that's been my experience.

    What Ben says about being tired is very true didn't appreciate how much difference coming to Judo after a days work vs coming to Judo after sitting about scratching your balls all day makes, until I left uni and started working.
    LOL, yeah, welcome to real life. My senior students are getting to experience that now. They walk in in their dirty work clothes after doing skilled labor all day (the single young woman included), and start to really understand the meaning of "sucking it up".

    There is a strong arguement for doing the most productive randori without a lot of tiring drilling before hand. that will simulate shiai conditions more accurately for sure, at least in terms of energy levels.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Thanks. I do think being not tired and not hot (air conditioning!) helped tremendously. Fatigue masks fitness is a truism.

    I went to my regular class on Friday-- sweltering, hard warmup, hard ne waza-- and I was back to being a mere mortal. I'm certainly getting better --it's pretty common for me to throw lower level black belts now--but I didn't have the crisp entries and pretty technique I had Wednesday.
    You should show up late to practice one day, well hydrated and rested, use some sort of excuse like traffic, family, work, whatever. Warm up then randori then see what happens.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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