Sumi Otoshi/magic judo

**Yamaarashi** · Posted On: 7/23/2011 9:10pm

I've had flukes here and there since I started judo, but over the last year or so since I've really begun to get a feel for exactly which throws are best for me those moments seem to be happening more often. Lately my seoinage has just worked to the point that a couple of times it felt like I was throwing a 5 year old, they just went over so quickly and easily. I've also had a couple of recent tai otoshi that kind of felt like I was moving twice as fast as my opponent - I wasn't even countering them, it was just a case of me moving in and bam! They're on the ground. They really are amazing moments, I think my mate summed it up perfectly: "Even an orgasm doesn't come close to the couple of seconds following a real ippon"

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/25/2011 6:07pm

Your friend needs to experience better sex.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 7/25/2011 7:38pm

Alright, possibly stupid question, but in order to get better one must ask possibly stupid questions.

Given that:

1: Uki otoshi involves a drop to a kneeling position

2: A common response by uke is a forward bend

Can uki otoshi be considered a good entry into sutemi waza or guardwork or does that dropping motion plant tori's weight too much on the one knee?

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/25/2011 9:25pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

Alright, possibly stupid question, but in order to get better one must ask possibly stupid questions.

Given that:

1: Uki otoshi involves a drop to a kneeling position

2: A common response by uke is a forward bend

Can uki otoshi be considered a good entry into sutemi waza or guardwork or does that dropping motion plant tori's weight too much on the one knee?

Uki Otoshi does not require a drop to the knee. It can be done from a standing position as well.

Given the difficulty of doing Uki Otoshi in randori on even a compliant uke, I'd say it's not the best choice to enter sutemi waza (although I'm having a hard time imagining how that would work..I guess you could drop to a knee, unbalance uke, then pull guard or do some sort of open guard sweep).

Ben

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 7/25/2011 9:45pm

Yes, that's exactly what i'm thinking, drop and swing your hip under you in yoko tomoe nage.

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/25/2011 10:06pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

Yes, that's exactly what i'm thinking, drop and swing your hip under you in yoko tomoe nage.

Interesting idea, I'm not sure how practical it is though. Yoko Tomoe Nage is hard enough without falling to one knee first...you would lose your momentum, the "sutemi" part would be pretty weak.

But if you mean some sort of Yoko Tomoe Nage-like open guard sweep, I could imagine that.

Upon visualization, you are not in a very good position to do apply even a sweep, given a ai yotsu situation and going to one knee. The angles are all wrong.

Maybe an ankle pick on the lead leg would work as a follow up throw or sweep to ne waza, but you are flirting with the leg grab penalty, especially if the referee did not think you actually tried to do a Uki Otoshi. There are versions of Kibisu Gaeshi (ankle reversal) in which tori drops to one knee (google the Kodokan Nage Waza videos for examples).

The most basic way to get to ne waza safely is to attempt a throw, and knock uke down for score or not. You might want to work hard on your kouchi and ouchi gari and transitions from those throws, or Kosoto Gari/gake.

There are a couple of ways I know to get uke face down that are legal and won't harm uke, with tori in good position to followup with a rolling type armbar entry, or a choke, rolling or otherwise. Both involve some sleeve control and ashi waza, using uke escape reaction against him.

Ben

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 7/26/2011 6:20am

I dunno about everyone else, but I'm always too busy trying to stay on my feet in a contest to think about going to one knee.

Although it sounds good on paper, I don't think dropping to one knee and then attempting a sutemi waza is going to give you much joy, especially as you're now entering black belt competitions.

Going to your knee(s) in a black belt comp means this is going to happen to you before you have time to attempt any sutemi waza

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1WOl-UwvAM#t=1m20s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvXUawB7Co#t=18s

One thing you'll find is that those who are good at countering throws with just the hand action and turning into a twist down/whatever you want to call it is that they are usually pretty good at the throw they're being attacked with.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 7/27/2011 11:24am

I don't see how #1 is ippon. Uke was on both knees. That should be ne waza.

I've also been taught uchi mata when uke is on one knee.

**realjanuary** · Posted On: 7/27/2011 11:46am

#1 or "Tony Sangimino Osoto Gari at Spartak Team Cup" is clearly from standing, #2 however "Osoto Gari Against a Kneeling Opponent" is the one I think you're referring to.

Apart from the possibility that is was a wrong call are there reasons that ippon was given? The throw looked like it was done with power and control with uke landing on their back. From my n00bish view point the fact that the whole body left the ground made it look like ippon.