Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off
Posted On:5/13/2010 1:22am
Style: Combat Cuddling
You've clearly never grappled someone who's proficient in BJJ or any ground grappling system. What you described are actually great ways to expose your arms, neck, and head. When you're trying to tiger claw, gravity and leverage are on the side of the mounter. They're going to drop bombs on your face. While shifting into a higher mount, giving them more control and removing your arms from the equation. Also they are in a position of better leverage to easily eye gouge and drop elbows too.
Posted On:5/13/2010 1:26am
the thing is in bjj there is a unrealsitic approach to it when searching for sumbissions and when trying to upgrade ur postion, often times resting ur head on his chest orhaving ur head very close o the him, completly exposeing ur face and throat, i agree that bjj defense is good and limits ground and pound, improving ur postion involves leaving ur face and throat completly exposed, this is just what it is
Posted On:5/13/2010 1:35am
i kind of see what u are saying, but just the mere throat grabbing and eye gouging would be devastating in itself plus there is a leverage aspect to it, im not saying i am very good at bjj thast for sure, but what i am saying that is in this instance the leverage favors the person who is grabbing, what u would do is involve hip rotation at the same time, move the head and the body will follow very quickly. if i latch on the face and eye orbits really or throat, its going to be very hard to get my arms away and the pain will be so much that opponent wont be able to do much, there will be feeling of weakness of not beeing able to breath or blinded. wont be able to throw punches effectevly anywyas if you hold on their body with legs and move head and shoulders to block. rember to armbar u have to get to the side of the guy so u owuld have to get my hands away from ur throat or face, the key would be to transition from tiger claw to thumb eye gouge or throat grab with both hands. the way i see it i thnk it would work if exectuted quickly and with right timing while still beiing to defend yourself with boxing defense
Last edited by yodave; 5/13/2010 1:46am at .
Posted On:5/13/2010 1:55am
1. You're assumption requires that your arms be long enough to grab someone who is postured in mount, or they be short.
2. No leverage isn't on the bottom persons side. It's with the top person, who has gravity and the free range movement of their torso.
3. Reaching up and grabbing someone by the throat from undermount is silly. You can't choke someone that way.
4. This is the real world, you're going to get your ass sued or convicted in court. It doesn't matter who attacked who first. The prosecutor is going to ask you, so he was just sitting on top and you poked out his eyes? They're going to make you look like a crazy jackass in court.
5. You won't be able to do any of that, PHYSICS is against you. Even if you do, they're still in that top position and now very angry.
If you don't believe me, please try an experiment on an experienced grappler. Bullshido does meet ups called "Throwdowns" where we get together spar, hang out, and trade techniques. Look up your local one. Bottom line is if you don't do grappling you can't beat a grappler. Just the same as I can't just use biting and eye gouges to stop someone from punching/kicking my head in from standing. You have to spar and train striking to learn how to punch and strike from your feet, you got to learn to wrestle and do takedowns to defend the takedowns and put people down, you have to learn grappling to defend, escape, or dominate someone on the ground.
Posted On:5/13/2010 2:02am
i know my stand up is much better and i praticed my sprawl quite a bit but i guess i am trying to say is if i tried to reverse mount same time i grabbed throat or head with both hands i would move his head with hip rotation, now if he was posturing up i coulndt do this but as soon as i could throw him a bit off balance he would have to drop down to regain balance, and his head would be close enought to my hands then. obviously the advantage would be with the guy on top but i think these tricks would work. now the thing would be to do the tiger claw first, then bring in the second hand in and transtion to a double handed grab or thum eye gouging. thum eye gouging also workls stand up if u are close and he grabs ur shirt, u use his momentum against him but thast stand up
Last edited by yodave; 5/13/2010 2:07am at .
Posted On:5/13/2010 2:10am
You need to put this to the test somehow or it's all just theory.
rember to armbar u have to get to the side of the guy so u owuld have to get my hands away from ur throat or face
I don't think you know the armbar very well. If I have mount and you are reaching up to my face you are GIVING me a perfect armbar setup and no I don't have to move your hands or arms away from my face, the motion of the actual armbar will do that for me. When I spin into the armbar, your arm will come with me. If done correctly you will feel my entire body weight pinning you under the entire spin to armbar. It's actually a classic setup to punch the person from mount until they get desperate and either reach up to your face, or turn over giving their back. It's grappling 101. You won't have the leverage from down there to do me any serious damage before I can do major damage to you ( including eye gouges and throat strikes if I wish ) from a superior position of leverage.
There is an instructor from another style that comes to our gym from time to time to "test us" with his eye gouges and pressure points etc. Last time I believe he was actually running away from our assistant instructor because he was so sick of being choked and cranked. He then went back to his secret lab to work on whatever he felt didn't work right.
These sort of strategies always remind me of when someone tries to choke me from inside my guard.
In my experience, it's better not to infuriate the person who has the advantage over you.
Posted On:5/13/2010 2:11am
Originally Posted by yodave
i know my stand up is much better and i praticed my sprawl quite a bit but i guess i am trying to say is if i tried to reverse mount same time i grabbed throat with both hands i would move his head with hip rotation, now if he was posturing up i coulndt do this but as soon as i could throw him a bit off balance he would have to drop down to regain balance, and his head would be close enought to my hands then
No, no he wouldn't. You're assuming that because you've never grappled before. As a 4 year bjj vet. I'm gonna tell you getting someone off of you who wants to stay there is hard. Two hands on the throat isn't going to help control them. Why? Because they're able to limit your hip movement with weight pressure on your hips, defend your grips with their hands, head movement, and torso rotation.
Also when you extend your arms it's easier for them to move to a higher mount with their knees under your armpits, and they can isolate your arms easier. Bucking them off isn't an option because their hips are no longer over yours, therefor removing the power of your bridge. Also simple trying to grab an turn over would more likely result in your back being taken. Why? Because this is something practiced in a live resisting manner (as with all BJJ techniques) over and over again.
Watch this video. From your responses I don't believe you're training in an alive manner.
YouTube- Why Aliveness - Matt Thornton
Posted On:5/13/2010 2:17am
another thing as well would be try to get a up kick to the nuts or a knee, i know right now i owld have a better chane if doing all these things than actually trying to grapple with the guy but i think it would work, there are opportunity to do up kicks and knees tot he balls, they woulnd veen have to be very hard to hurt groin aerea and i have good power
obviously the advantage would be with the guy on top but i think these tricks would work.
It's not bad that you are coming up with ideas and solutions. Don't get me wrong. But no one in the grappling world will take you seriously because unless you can prove it, it's just empty words.
Posted On:5/13/2010 2:19am
well i could take a bjj course but right now i am trying to come up with way to use hip rotation and striking to deal with grappling, i could try and experiment this stuff with grapplers i know at the local university, they are actually pretty good but i want to take a bjj course eventually
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